SKILLED ENGINEERS ACQUIRE VALUABLE EXPERIENCE There are a number of less obvious advantages in keeping the civil works mission in the Army. Each in itself is not crucial but when considered together acquire significant importance collectively. I will cover them briefly. The civil works program within the Army Provides an inducement for attracting and retaining highly qualified professional engineers and related skills for the Army, both military and civil service personnel, who would not be attracted by a less diversified organization; Provides an opportunity for the experience and training of engineer and logistics officers in planning, constructing and managing large and complex projects that would not otherwise be available in the normal peacetime situation; 75 percent of the engineers commanding battalions and larger units today in Vietnam have had the benefit of experience gained in Engineer district assignments; 62 percent of the Regular Army field grade officers that is, officers in the grade of major and above-are likewise so trained; Provides close ties with the engineering profession and the engineering and construction industries, keeping the military up-to-date on civilian engineering, construction, and scientific techniques and developments; Provides, conversely, for an easier flow of the results of military engineering research and development techniques and developments to the civilian engineering community; and Provides tangible and visible evidence at the country's grassroots level of the Army's concern with and participation in the peacetime progress of the Nation, and of the caliber and dedication of Army people. AVAILABILITY OF ENGINEERS IN NATIONAL EMERGENCY I am pleased to note that the drafters of S. 886 recognize that the civil works part of the Army Engineers must be available to the Army in time of national emergency. But I believe that these capabilities must be available to the Army at all times and particularly during the critical mobilization planning phase required to cope with an actual state of emergency. The time available to respond to emergency conditions is now more compressed than ever. The difficulties and delays inherent in the retransfer of a separate civilian agency would so increase the time required to put the necessary engineering and construction resources into an effective operation that its usefulness in the mobilization phase could be seriously impaired. And there is no assurance that the civil works elements lost to the Army would remain in an organizational form in the new department that would be suitable for military needs when retransferred. LIABILITIES OF TRANSFER OF CIVIL WORKS ACTIVITIES If civil works responsibilities were taken from the Army- The technical quality of our personnel and the capability of our Our engineer mobilization base will be impaired, and the country will lose that team which responds to natural disasters and stands ready to respond similarly to a national disaster. That concludes my statement, Mr. Chairman. I thank you for the opportunity to present it. Senator RIBICOFF. Thank you very much, General Johnson. Anytime you want to go, feel free to do so. I see you are well flanked, and I imagine if there are any particular questions your staff can answer them. General JOHNSON. Yes, sir; and perhaps better than I. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator RIBICOFF. You are welcome. COORDINATION BEGINS EARLY IN PROJECT DEVELOPMENT Mr. Secretary, it has been said that various Federal agencies each tend to operate in a vacuum with little coordination in developing projects. At what stage of project development and to what degree does the Corps of Engineers coordinate with other Federal agencies? Secretary RESOR. I have here with me Mr. Fitt, who is my Special Assistant for Civil Functions, who has spent most of his time while he was General Counsel of the Army, at least a significant portion of his time, on engineering matters, and I am going to ask him to assist in answering some of these questions. I would like him to respond to that one. Senator RIBICOFF. Perfectly all right. Mr. FITT. Well, of course, coordination takes place at the very outset of any project which has its inception as a gleam in somebody's eye. The way in which the system operates is that where a need has been identified or a desire has been expressed for a particular form of development, this matter is analyzed locally. It is brought to the attention of the Congress. The Congress then directs that a study be performed or not be performed, and in the course of that study, the local agencies of the Corps of Engineers work directly with the State and local officials that have relevant functions and with the other agencies of the Federal Government. General Cassidy, who is the Chief of Engineers, is also here, and I am sure he can describe in greater detail, if you wish, the points at which coordination begins. CONFLICTS WITH OTHER FEDERAL AGENCIES Senator RIBICOFF. But you do run into some conflicts. You might be putting up a dam or building some projections out into a harbor or bay, and you certainly run into problems with the Department of the Interior in protection of wildlife, and so forth. I notice here an item from the New York Times: "Army Admits Role in Lake Pollution." There is a story here about the Army Corps of Engineers problem in Lake Michigan. So, you do run into conflicts. (The article referred to follows:) [From the New York Times, Oct. 11, 1967] EXHIBIT 6 ARMY ADMITS ROLE IN LAKE POLLUTION HOUSE PANEL HEARS GENERAL AT LAKE MICHIGAN INQUIRY WASHINGTON, October 10 (AP).—The Army Corps of Engineers admitted today that it was helping to pollute Lake Michigan, and said that it would probably have to continue doing so at least through 1970. But Brig. Gen. H. G. Woodbury Jr., the corps' director of civil works, told a House subcommittee that the pollution material, harbor dredgings dumped into the lake, was small compared with that from industry and cities. The corps must dredge in order to maintain 108 Great Lakes harbors, General Woodbury said, and must dump dredgings into the lakes until Federal and local agencies are willing to spend some $500-million for inland disposal pits. He testified at a hearing requested by Chicago's Metropolitan Sanitary District after the corps announced it must dump 200,000 cubic yards of dredging from Indiana Harbor into Lake Michigan. The sanitary district asked a Congressional investigation aimed at ending what it called promiscuous dumping by the Army Engineers and cities. The district said polluted dredgings are being dumped into Lake Michigan at the rate of 3.5 million cubic yards a year. General Woodbury said the corps did not introduce pollutants into the lake, but only moved from one place to another bottom soil already polluted by industry, agriculture and cities. But under questioning from Representative Sidney R. Yates, Democrat of Illinois, he agreed that the corps moved pollutants from harbors and rivers that otherwise would not wind up in the lake. "Then the corps knows it is moving pollutants into Lake Michigan?" Mr. Yates asked. "Yes, sir," General Woodbury replied. "We know, too, that the amount we are dumping is small in comparison to other pollutants being introduced into the lake." Representative Roman C. Pucinski, Democrat of Illinois, said the amount of pollution dumped by the corps was not the point. "The problem," he said, "is that you really can't crack down on private industry when you have a Federal agency doing any kind of polluting." General Woodbury said the corps was not likely to get sufficient money to end the dumping before 1970, when a $6-million study on effects of the dumping will be completed. He said an interim report was expected next summer. Senator RIBICOFF. What I am curious about is this: When do you sit down and how often do you sit down with the Department of the Interior or HEW on water pollution, or the Department of Agriculture? When do you sit down with any of them? Do you? Mr. FITT. Oh, yes, sir. There is a constant course of dealings. CORPS WORKS TO COOPERATE WITH OTHER AGENCIES For example, in the case of the really serious difficulties in the Great Lakes area that were mentioned in the New York Times, the Army Corps of Engineers has been working directly with the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration, both at its regional office in Chicago and here at the Washington level, to deal with the problems discussed in that article. There is a very serious conflict there between the requirements of the regional economy and commercial navigation on the Great Lakes: dredging is required in order to support the commerce of that area; on the other hand the dredged material is unquestionably polluted in some instances, and the problems of disposing of that material in a fashion which does not increase the pollution problems of the Great Lakes are very severe. The Corps has worked, as I say, with the FWPCA in developing a program to overcome those difficulties. It will not be easy. It will take a long time probably and will be quite expensive. This is one of the problems we have in our society with the growth of these great urban complexes, in competing considerations affecting the use of the natural resources in those areas. (The following additional information was subsequently furnished for the record:) The Corps of Engineers has coordinated and cooperated with the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration on the Great Lakes dredging issue and a joint public statement was released on March 1, 1967. The joint statement follows: EXHIBIT 7 DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS MARCH 1, 1967. JOINT PUBLIC STATEMENT BY DEPARTMENTS OF THE INTERIOR AND ARMY REGARDING DREDGING ON THE GREAT LAKES The Department of the Army and the Department of the Interior have reached agreement on a program and plan for attacking the problem of the disposition of polluted material dredged from harbors on the Great Lakes. The agreement covers an interim program, effective immediately for calendar year 1967, and a permanent plan of action to be implemented as rapid as alternate procedures can be developed, tested and funded. The Federal agencies charged with carrying out the agreement are the Corps of Engineers for the Department of the Army, and the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration (FWPCA) for the Department of the Interior. By acts of Congress the Corps of Engineers is responsible for improvement and maintenance of the waterways of the United States in the interest of navigation. These waterways are life-lines of America's growth, industrial might and prosperity, and their proper maintenance is an exceedingly important responsibility of the Corps. The Corps of Engineers recognizes that considerable time will be required before complete treatment of municipal and industrial wastes will prevent the introduction of pollutants to the waterways. During this time a means must be found to keep the waterways open. Doing so involves dredging of polluted material. The Corps is therefore studying alternate procedures for the disposal of the polluted dredging resulting from these industrial and municipal wastes. The Department of Interior (FWPCA) by Congressional acts has the responsibility to enhance quality and value of all water resources and to carry out, in cooperation with State and local governments, a national program aimed at the prevention, control and abatement of water pollution. Additionally by Executive Order No. 11288, the Department of the Interior shall provide technical advice and assistance to heads of other Departments, who are to provide leadership in the nationwide effort to improve water quality through prevention. control and abatement of water pollution from Federal Government activities. The two agencies agree that joint effort is required for the development of acceptable alternative disposal means with the ultimate objective of providing leadership in the nationwide effort to improve water quality through prevention, control and abatement of water pollution by Federal water resources projects. In order to maintain navigation, the Corps of Engineers will proceed with dredging in calendar year 1967 on 64 of the 108 channel and harbor projects in the Great Lakes. A list of these 64 projects is given at the end of this release. While some of these projects are seriously contaminated, disruption of local and national economies would result if dredging were to be deferred this year; and alternate disposal methods cannot be developed and funded in time. Detailed observation and measurement of the polluting characteristics will be jointly conducted by the two agencies during the dredging operations. These observations will include water and material sampling at the dredging site before and after dredging operations and selected sampling en route and at disposal areas with the objective of evaluating the effects of the operations. The analysis of the samples will be done by the Federal Water Pollution Control Administration. These studies will serve to guide plans for alternate methods thereafter. For the longer range permanent plan, the Corps of Engineers will initiate a pilot program of experimentation in March 1967. An amount of $1 million has been made available for this program during fiscal year 1967, and the President's budget includes $5 million for continuation of the program during fiscal year 1968. The purpose of this program is to develop, with the aid of consultants, the most practicable methods for management of pollution problems related to dredging operations on the Great Lakes and that will be consistent with the objectives of cleaning up our rivers and lakes. The Department of the Interior is in agreement with the pilot program and will participate in it. The pilot program will investigate all alternate disposal methods, such as along-shore diked areas, disposal at some distance inland from the shore, and treatment methods, and evaluate pollution abatement results. Five localities have been selected for institution of the pilot program. The Green Bay project, where scheduled disposal in an away-from-shore land site will permit development of acceptable means of treating the polluted drainage from such an area; the Cleveland project, which has a high pollution index and where a favorable opportunity exists for field experimentation with the dike types; Toledo and Detroit's River Rouge where existing near-shore diked areas are in use and where the Toledo site represents an intermediate pollution index; and Great Sodus Bay where there is a low pollution index. In the Chicago area, the use of on-shore disposal areas shows great promise and such areas are being actively explored in connection with the forthcoming maintenance dredging on the Calumet River. The work at these selected areas in 1967 will provide a full-scale test of ways for filtering the liquids draining back into the lake from such areas, as well as confining the solids. When acceptable alternate methods of dredge disposal have been agreed upon, and at the earliest possible time, the Corps will take appropriate budgetary action to secure the necessary funds. This may require substantial funds programmed over a period of several years. The Federal Water Pollution Control Administration will contribute to the pilot study effort by providing leadership in the development and implementation of an effective program for measuring the polutional effects of the materials to be dredged. Skilled personnel as well as fixed and mobile laboratory facilities of that agency will be made available to analyze these materials for chemical, biological, physical and other characteristics and thus determine the effectiveness of the various methods proposed. In carrying forward the nation-wide Federal-State-local program to prevent, control and abate pollution in our rivers, lakes and coastal waters, the Department of the Interior will further utilize all of its resources and powers in the support of measures which prevent pollution at the source. By June 30, 1967, the States will submit quality standards and plans for their implementation for approval by the Secretary of the Interior. As State plans of implementation get underway, it is expected that the quantity of polluting materials from municipal, industrial and other sources deposited in navigable waters will be drastically reduced. Thus, the pollutional effects of dredging will be reduced in direct ratio to the success of the nation-wide control effort and improved methods of spoil disposal. The agreement announced today reflects the determination of the two agencies to prevent an example of what the Federal Government must do to help preserve the incomparable values of the Great Lakes water resources. |