I Mr. ARENS. Was the study which you made for the Fund for the tepublic, in which you submitted a report on J. Edgar Hoover and is testimony, the only service which you rendered to the Fund for ne Republic? Mr. FRANTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. ARENS. Over what period of time were you engaged in this work for the Fund for the Republic? Mr. FRANTZ. Not long; 3 or 4 weeks. Mr. SCHERER. Strange how the Fund for the Republic has picked up uch individuals as this to make these studies. This man has been dentified, has he not, as a member of the Communist Party? Let me ask you: You are a member of the Communist Party right now, aren't you, and you were when you made this study? Mr. FRANTZ. I believe that question has been asked and answered, ir. Mr. SCHERER. No, it hasn't been answered. You danced around the ifth amendment and have not invoked it. I have been listening carefully. You have not answered the question, nor have you refused to answer. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I personally do not know whether he has or hasn't. I just don't know. Mr. SCHERER. He has not answered. Mr. ARENS. On whether or not he has invoked the fifth amendment, I couldn't say honestly on this record. Would you tell us whether or not you have invoked the fifth amendment in response to the question of whether or not you are a member of the Communist Party? Mr. FRANTZ. Mr. Chairman, I have invoked with respect to any questions as to my political affiliations any and all legal rights I might have to refuse to answer, including the entire Constitution insofar as it is applicable, including certain of the Bill of Rights, including the fifth amendment, including the reserve powers of the peopleMr. ARENS. That will include enough. Mr. FRANTZ. Yes. Mr. ARENS. Now, sir, have you likewise written for The Nation magazine? Mr. FRANTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. ARENS. Have you written an article entitled "Does Silence Mean Guilt?" Mr. FRANTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. ARENS. When you wrote that article, were you then a member of the Communist Party? Mr. FRANTZ. My answer with respect to all questions with regard to political affiliations will be the same, and I think it has been given, although it could have been given better if you would let me read my prepared version. Mr. ARENS. Have you written articles for The Nation magazine respecting the "Bankrupt Inquisition," namely, this Committe on UnAmerican Activities? Mr. FRANTZ. Yes, sir; I would like to offer a reprint of it in evidence, if I may, sir. Mr. ARENS. And at the time you wrote that article, were you then a member of the Communist Party? Mr. FRANTZ. Mr. Chairman, this is a waste of time. I made clear the articles which you read and placed in my dossier before I = called that I would not answer questions of this kind. Mr. ARENS. Do you want to decline on the same grounds, to e nomize on your time? Mr. FRANTZ. Yes, sir. I am trying to economize the committe time. I made the statement to the committee yesterday and I l I thought, made clear already that I would not answer questions that kind. This asking it again in a different sense is certainly a was of time. Mr. ARENS. Did you make it clear for the Fund for the Repuit when they engaged you to write that report for submission to that a exempt organization that you were a member of the Communist Part at the time you were making this investigation of the great Direct of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? Mr. SCHERER. If he had, there would have been something sal about that. Mr. ARENS. Did you make it clear when you wrote your articles 2tacking the members of this committee that you were a member of th Communist Party? Mr. FRANTZ. The same answer. Mr. ARENS. Have you written articles published in national maga zines attacking the security provisions of our immigration laws, have you written articles such as "Deportation Deliriums"? Mr. FRANTZ. Yes, sir; I have, and I am very happy the committee kindly making Mr. ARENS. Did you make it clear to the readers who would re your articles that you were writing as a member of the Communis Party, or did you just omit to tell them that? Mr. FRANTZ. Mr. Chairman, what it says in those articles is in pris and easily available. I am sorry I don't have reprints about them all. But the text of the article is a much better source as to what I said or didn't say than any recollection I might have as to what I said when I wrote it. Mr. ARENS. Have you written articles for the Daily People's World! Mr. FRANTZ. I am going to refuse to answer that on the ground previously stated. May I also submit this "Bankrupt Inquisition" article for the reord, Mr. Chairman? I would like to have it marked "Defendant's Exhibit No. 1," please, sir. Mr. ARENS. Were you librarian at Drake University? Mr. FRANTZ. Yes, sir. Mr. ARENS. Did you make known to the authorities at Drake University that you were a member of the Communist Party? Mr. FRANTZ. The question assumes a fact not in evidence. Mr. ARENS. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time you were librarian at Drake University? Mr. FRANTZ. The same answer, the same general line of objections Mr. ARENS. Were you under Communist Party discipline while you were librarian at Drake University with respect to your activities in that library? Mr. FRANTZ. I believe that is the same question, or at any rate within the area to which I addressed my constitutional objections. Mr. ARENS. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that although we ould go over a great number of items here in a similar vein, as one itness said, we have arrived at that point with this witness where it ould be a waste of our breath. I respectfully suggest this will, therefore, conclude the staff's intergation of this witness. Mr. WILLIS. The witness is excused. Mr. ARENS. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be Ir. Bertram Edises. Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman dministers an oath. Mr. WILLIS. Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give ill be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help ou God? Mr. EDISES. I do. TESTIMONY OF BERTRAM EDISES, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, NORMAN LEONARD Mr. ARENS. Kindly idenify yourself by name, residence, and occupation. Mr. EDISES. My name is, as you know, Bertram Edises. I live at 580 Hilldale Avenue, Berkeley, California. My occupation is that of an attorney-at-law, and in that connection I think I would like to tell he committee a little about the more specialized aspects of my funconing as attorney-at-law. Mr. ARENS. We will pursue it further, if we are interested in it, in our interrogation. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served upon you by this committee? Mr. EDISES. I am appearing in response to a subpena which was served upon me by this committee, and I think Mr. WILLIS. Next question. Mr. ARENS. You are represented by counsel ? Mr. EDISES. I hadn't quite finished my answer. Mr. ARENS. You have satisfied us that you are appearing in response to the subpena, so we will withdraw any other question of that vein. Mr. Witness, are you represented by counsel? Mr. EDISES. My very good friend, Norman Leonard, has consented to appear with me because he is aware that it is highly improper for a committee of this kind to, in effect, attack an attorney who is trying to render a professional service to his clients and any of us, under those circumstances, are likely to become a little bit emotionally upset. For this reason, although I am an attorney, I have in mind the old adage that an attorney who acts as his own attorney has a fool for a client and I don't want to be put in that position. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself on this record? Mr. LEONARD. You address me as counsel, Mr. Arens, but the fact of the matter is that the rules of this committee do not permit me to function effectively as counsel. I will simply be here to advise Mr. Edises. Your own rules do not permit the attorney to function in the way that the Bar of America permits them to function and in the w that they function before other committees of the Congress. Mr. ARENS. Now, Mr. Edises, give us a word about your for education. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. EDISES. Well, I-You didn't ask me where I was born. As you interested? I was born in Oakland, California. I have lived this state all my life. I can't remember all of the various schools that i went to. Mr. ARENS. We are not interested in each specific school. I thi any reasonable interpretation of that question by a person of goo: faith would be of the same significance. Mr. EDISES. Please, Mr. Arens, don't talk to me about good faith. Mr. ARENS. We will test it right now. Are you now, or have yo ever been, a member of the Communist Party? Mr. EDISES. This, of course, is your complete proof that you ar not performing in good faith. I intend to elaborate on that question Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I request that the witness be ordered and directed to answer that question. Mr. LEONARD. Mr. Chairman Mr. ARENS. Counsel, your sole and exclusive right under the rule of this committee and under the rules of the United States Congress is solely to advise your client. Mr. LEONARD. I am appealing to the chairman of the committee t ask the staff director to permit my client to answer a question. I think, as an attorney, I have that much right. May I not appeal to the chairman of the committee to ask the staf director to permit my client to answer the question? Mr. ARENS. Kindly answer the question: Are you now a member of the Communist Party? Mr. WILLIS. May I say something? Mr. EDISES. I am going to address myself to you. I am going to address myself to you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. WILLIS. Wait a minute. Your counsel has asked me for s ruling. Of course you are entitled to ask questions, but no one in this room knows better than you that a simple question as to giving your background and legal education and so on does not require an extensive dissertation or long discussion. If you want to answer it promptly, courteously, accurately, that's all right. But you will not be permitted, because you happen to be an attorney, to have greater latitude than anybody else. There was a question or two before the last one, and we can retur to it to answer it promptly, if you want to, and I will give you that chance. You were questioned as to your educational background. Mr. EDISES. I was in the process of answering it, I thought. Mr. WILLIS. I suggest, Mr. Arens, that you ask him what colleges he attended, when, and what degrees he achieved, so that there is no point in elaboration. Mr. EDISES. I will be glad to answer that, Mr. Willis, and I must say that although I certainly don't agree with what I know about your politics, I do commend your manner of answering questions. You don't try to browbeat witnesses in the way Mr. Arens does. He esn't ask questions. He makes stump speeches. (A disturbance in the hearing room.) Mr. WILLIS. We are not going to have any disturbances. I am >ing to issue the same ruling. One more disturbance and I will issue ruling that the people keeping the peace keep an eye on the leaders the disturbances. I am not ordering it now, but one more disturbance or infraction f the rule, and I will ask them, as I did yesterday, to escort them out. ot now, but with one more that will be the case. Mr. EDISES. Answering your question with regard to my formal lucation, I am a graduate of the University of California at Berkey. I am also very proud to be a graduate of the University of Caliornia Law School, also at Berkeley. Now, if I may address myself to the other question that your bellierent Mr. Arens Mr. ARENS. Now, listen, Counsel, you are not going to attack me ny further. Mr. EDISES. You have been attacking people all day, Mr. Arens. Mr. EDISES. Can't you take it? You can't take it; is that it? Mr. ARENS. The outstanding question is: Are you now, or have you ver been, a member of the Communist Party? Mr. EDISES. I submit-I am answering that in my own way and nobody is going to put words in my mouth, and that goes for Mr. Arens and for the members of the committee. I will answer the quesion, if you will allow me to do so. Won't you please permit me to answer? All right. Now, I know and you know that that question is not asked in good faith, and I will tell you why, and this is part of my legal objection, part of my legal objection. It wasn't very long ago that your committee came out with a publication, and I have it right here, called "Communist Legal Subversion, The Role of the Communist Lawyer." On page 36 of this publication there appears what purports to be an official biography of someone by the name of Bertram Edises of California. It goes into great detail. It purports to indicate that Mr. Bertram Edises was identified as a member of the Communist Party, et cetera, et cetera; that he has served as a member of the legal staff of the Civil Rights Congress since its inception; that the Civil Rights Congress retained Mr. Edises to represent certain defendants in both Federal and State courts; that the activities of Bertram Edises on behalf of the Communist Party have not been confined to the Civil Rights Congress, and so on; a remarkably detailed purported biography. It so happens that although I have been subpenaed four times, this is the first time that I have ever testified before this organization, before the Un-American Activities Committee; and therefore, I can only conclude that you got this information which you published at Government expense, and which you didn't set forth in any doubtful form at all, it is all set forth as gospel truth, it is findings of fact, and I can only conclude that you got the information from your socalled reliable, unimpeachable sources that you have been bragging about. |