Mr. ARENS. And you are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served upon you by this committee? Mr. WACHTER. Yes. Mr. ARENS. You are represented by counsel? Mr. WACHTER. I am represented by counsel who does not speak for me and I would Mr. ARENS. Counsel, would you identify yourself? Mr. WACHTER. I would like to suggest that Mr. Arens remove himself and my counsel remove himself and I will answer the questions of Mr. Willis directly. Mr. ARENS. Counsel, will you identify yourself? Mr. EDISES. As soon as my client has answered. Mr. ARENS. Since counsel has refused to identify himself, we will proceed with the witness. Where were you born? Mr. WACHTER. I was born in Brooklyn, N.Y. Mr. ARENS. How long did you live in Brooklyn? Mr. WACHTER. Until I was about 18. Mr. ARENS. How long have you lived in these parts? Mr. WACHTER. About 24 or 25 years. Mr. ARENS. Did you travel to New York in December of 1959 ? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. WACHTER. What is the purpose of your question? Mr. ARENS. To find out whether or not you traveled to New York in December of 1959. Mr. WACHTER. What is the purpose of the question? Mr. ARENS. To find out whether or not you were, or are going to tell this committee that you were, a delegate to the National Convention of the Communist Party held in New York in 1959. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. WACHTER. Why could you not have come out and directly asked me that question instead of trying to sneak up on me? Mr. ARENS. Would you kindly tell us, then, openly, candidly, fully, everything to your certain knowledge which transpired at the National Convention of the Communist Party held in 1959? Mr. WACHTER. Mr. Arens, Mr. Willis, I decline to answer on the following grounds: I formally protest this committee's attempt to hold my son up for public scorn, an 18-year-old boy, loved and respected by his family, friends and community, and I might add this continues to grow especially before his appearance before you. You should be ashamed of yourselves to stoop to such vicious and low tactics. Mr. ARENS. Now, sir Mr. WACHTER. I have not finished answering your question. Yesterday at one-fifteen my boy was standing outside talking to a KPFA reporter and suddenly he was hit by the full force of a fire hose. He acted as any red-blooded American would. He attempted to stand his ground. He was choked, his arm was twisted, and he was flung into jail where he was booked, photographed, and it took me 4 hours to find him. I am very disturbed about this. I am his father. You are trying to pillory my son. I stand here and I object to it. I want everybody in the country to know it. Let it be placed in the 56597-60-pt. 3-6 record. Let this record show that this disgraceful incident of the last 24 hours is the responsibility of how this Mr. Wheeler and tis committee tried to stack this committee with its card-carrying out spiracy, to fill this hearing, so that the American people cannot se and hear what is going on for themselves. I am very much shaken up about this. These children are trying to learn about a democracy. Mr. ARENS. You are reading from a prepared statement? Mr. WACHTER. I am reading from the notes I wrote while listening to you. Why not allow the children to come in and tell their story! Why not allow that tape the KPFA made outside about the hose! Why not put that into the record? Mr. WILLIS. I am directing you to answer the question. Mr. WACHTER. I am now finishing my answer. I will conclude nj answer. Mr. ARENS. We tried to get your son to tell his story. Mr. WACHTER. I further decline to answer the question on the fur ther Constitution grounds that such a question invades my right of privacy, my right to have any opinions, political or otherwise, whether I have them or not. You don't have a right to inquire, by the first amendment. Cor gress has no right to inquire into these matters. However, this is not sufficient, I understand, legally, for this committee. Therefor I have to invoke, as my son did, and I am proud of him, and I thins the rest of the country is, too Mr. ARENS. What is his name? Mr. WACHTER. I am answering your question. I have to invoke in answer to your question, the fifth amendment, which, as you well know, is designed to protect dissenters, people who have opinions different from yours, and on those grounds I stand. I refuse to answer your question on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments, which casts no aspersions on me personally, as you well know. Mr. ARENS. Are you now, this instant, a member of the Communist Party? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. WACHTER. I am not going to answer any further questions along this line. You are simply wasting your breath. My answer will stand as I have stated to the previous questions from here on in. Mr. ARENS. I am inclined to agree with you that we would br wasting our breath on further interrogation of yourself. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this will conclude th staff interrogation of this witness. Mr. WACHTER. Thank you. Mr. ARENS. The next witness will be Elnier E. Johnson. Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad ministers an oath. Mr. WILLIS. I might say that the factual part of this last witness answer as to what prompted the difficulty yesterday is refuted by exactly three reputable people under oath, the Chief of Police, the Sheriff, and the very fine Inspector. Proceed. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Elmer E. Johnson, please come forward. Mr. JOHNSON. I was released from testimony. I was excused yesterday. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Johnson, did you testify yesterday? We have three Johnsons here. Mr. JOHNSON. I am Elmer E. Johnson. I was the last one to testify. Mr. ARENS. I beg your pardon, sir. John Allen Johnson, please come forward and remain standing while the chairman administers an oath. Mr. WILLIS. Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. JOHNSON. I do. TESTIMONY OF JOHN ALLEN JOHNSON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, BERTRAM EDISES Mr. ARENS. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation. Mr. JOHNSON. I am John Allen Johnson. My address is 254 Irvington Drive, Ukiah, California. Mr. ARENS. Your occupation? Mr. JOHNSON. I am a high school mathematics teacher. Mr. ARENS. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served upon you by this committee? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir. Mr. ARENS. You are represented by counsel? Mr. JOHNSON. To the extent that I am permitted. Mr. ARENS. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself? Mr. EDISES. Bertram Edises, of Oakland, Calif. Mr. ARENS. Were you one time engaged as a carpenter, Mr. Johnson? (The witness confered with his counsel.) Mr. JOHNSON. What is the pertinency of that question? Mr. ARENS. I intend to interrogate you with respect to a little difficulty I understand you were in as a person who was engaged as a member of a carpenters local. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. JOHNSON. What was the nature of the difficulty, sir? Mr. ARENS. You tell us. You were there. I wasn't. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. JOHNSON. What has that got to do with the subject matter of your inquiry? Mr. ARENS. I will display to you now, if you please, sir, or read to you and then display to you, a thermofax reproduction of an article appearing in the Communist People's World of April 3, 1952: Carpenters chief ousts member. M. A. Hutcheson, international president of the AFL Carpenters, has arbitrarily ruled that Allen Johnson can no longer be a member of East Bay Carpenters Local 36. Johnson was charged by some local union officials with belonging to "a subversive organization". Hutcheson's letter, read at the local's membership meeting of March 21, called for Johnson to sign an affidavit swearing he had never been a member of a "subversive" organization, but at the same time the letter said that he (Hutcheson) "deemed" Johnson guilty. Some 300 members of the local heard Hutcheson's letter read by the secretary and also heard a reply letter written by Johnson answering the charges. In the course of the article it says that Johnson is going to take legal steps to upset this decision, arbitrarily throwing him out or disassociating him from the local, and he is going to campaign for the United States Congress. Now, Mr. Johnson, does that refresh your recollection, first of all, with reference to the incident I was undertaking to elicit information from you on? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. ARENS. Is your recollection refreshed now? Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Staff Director, to that ques tion and all questions along that particular line I decline to answer on the following grounds: Mr. Chairman, prior to the end of the noon recess yesterday, I had decided to offer a certain degree of cooperation to this committee. I felt obligated to do so because of the trust placed in me as a teacher. I had also arrived at this position to prevent this committee from distorting the facts of my life which have no meaning, apart from my dedication to the American ideals of democracy, human brotherhood and peace. I was prepared to answer any and all questions about myself, ideas and affiliations, so long as I might be granted the right to decline the role of Judas and not be forced to subject others to the indignities and harassments to which I have been subjected. My decision to offer cooperation abruptly changed when I ap proached the chamber yesterday afternoon and witnessed the shocking display of brutality against students whose only crime was a desire to witness these hearings. This committee bears full responsibility for yesterday's outrage. It was the committee policy of packing the chamber which provoked the justifiable indignation of the students. (Document marked "John Allen Johnson Ex. No. 1" and retained in committee files.) Mr. WILLIS. I don't know how long this is, but I will order you to come to the point. Mr. JOHNSON. It will just take me one second. Mr. ARENS. You are reading from a prepared statement? Mr. JOHNSON. I am reading. I prepared it a little ahead of time. I am a little nervous. I am a teacher. I have the necessity of working with children who do get excited. If there is one thing that I know about children Mr. WILLIS. Answer the question. Mr. JOHNSON. I think this has a bearing. Mr. WILLIS. This speech of yours is unimpressive. I am not convinced that the position you are now taking is not what it would have been yesterday, the day before and weeks ago. But I order you to answer the question. Mr. JOHNSON. Students do have one thing that they hold very sacred, and that is a sense of fair play. You can treat students very, very sternly, very strictly, as long as you engage in fair play. Mr. WILLIS. Proceed with your next question, Mr. Arens. He has had an opportunity to answer. Mr. ARENS. Were you at the time, March 21, 1952, when you were thrown out of the East Bay Carpenters Local, were you then a member of the Communist Party? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. JOHNSON. I continue to decline to answer that question and continue my statement as follows: As I approached the chamber yesterday, uniformed employees of the city were quietly rolling out the fire Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the witness now be ordered and directed to answer the question. Mr. WILLIS. You are ordered to answer the question. Your counsel will surely advise you of the consequences of not complying with the order, which simply means contempt. Mr. SCHERER. Mr. Chairman, I have been watching this counsel all day and it is counsel's fault. He has been putting words into the witnesses' mouths who have testified before this committee, what they should say and how they should bait this committee, instead of advising them as to their constitutional rights. He is the one that should be censured. Mr. EDISES. Mr. Scherer, you made a charge against me. Will you give me an opportunity to defend myself? If you will give counsel the opportunity Mr. ARENS. Counsel, you know you are presently in violation of the rules, not alone of this committee but of the United States Congress. Mr. EDISES. -to function as an attorney it would not be necessary to grapple with these problems. Mr. SCHERER. You have been doing it all day. Mr. EDISES. If you say that again, Mr. Scherer, I will insist upon an opportunity to answer you, and I have a number of things to say to you. Mr. WILLIS. Proceed. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Witness, tell this committee, are you now a member of the Communist Party? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question, and I continue with my following grounds. I feel I would be remiss in my duty Mr. WILLIS. How long is that statement? Mr. WILLIS. You told me a half page a while ago. We give you people an inch and you want five yards. Mr. JOHNSON. I didn't tell you how long it was. Mr. WILLIS. You will come to the point and answer the question. Mr. JOHNSON. Accordingly, I must say that the Mr. WILLIS. Proceed with your next question. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Witness, tell this committee if you have had occasion to view riots which you have assessed against the Fascists. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. JOHNSON. I am answering that question in my own way. I will say that this committee has no right to pry into anyone's beliefs or associations, that the first amendment guarantees my right to think, to express ideas and to join with others to promote the ideas and ideals in which I believe. |