Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether he knows a person by the name of Vern Bown. Mr. WILLIS. I direct you to answer that question. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. WEINTRAUB. Furthermore, the Constitution protects me with the fifth amendment as well. Mr. ARENS. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this committee whether or not you know a person by the name of Vern Bow you would be supplying information that might be used against you in a criminal proceeding? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. WEINTRAUB. I have already answered. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respect fully suggest the witness now be ordered and directed to answer this last outstanding principal question which is for the purpose of testing his good faith in invoking the fifth amendment. Mr. WILLIS. It is a perfectly proper question. You are directed to answer it. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. WEINTRAUB. I refuse to answer it on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. Mr. ARENS. It is the information of this committee, sir, that you were a section leader of the AFL Section of the Communist Party at the time that Vern Bown was expelled from that section, and were one of those who was engaged in raising a protest with the National Committee of the party respecting this expulsion. For the purpose of this record, I ask you now: Were you, at the time of the expulsion of Vern Bown from the AFL Section of the Communist Party, yourself, a member of the Communist Party active in the AFL Section? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. WEINTRAUB. Mr. Arens, before I give my answer I would like to preface it with the reason why I am giving my answer. I consider this committee to be in the same stripe as other governmental agencies such as, for example, the McClellan committee, which supposedly was investigating both labor and management, and managed to investigate only labor basically, and the monitors investigating the teamsters or taking over the control of the teamsters under the direction of Judge Letts, and the Kennedy-Landrum-Griffin bill which is anti-labor legislation. I have not run into any governmental agency of this stripe which is pro-labor or which gives labor a fair shake. I think if labor were to get the fair shake that it deserves, this committee would not be in existence. For example, in Louisiana, if the people down there were organized, they would have the right to vote. I don't think they have that complete right. I am not going to cooperate with this committee. I feel that they are out to hang me, they are out to ruin me, if possible. But this is just a by-product of their general anti-labor trend. Therefore, I invoke the fifth amendment again. Mr. ARENS. In order that we can help probably clean out Communists 2 1 Mr. WILLIS. I will say this, Mr. Arens, at least he was kinder than the others by saying he does not think something about voting rights in my district. He did not charge it as unduly and as harshly as others. But I might now say for the record that they do vote. Proceed. Mr. WEINTRAUB. Congressman Willis Mr. WILLIS. I do not want to debate. Please proceed. Mr. ARENS. Are you now, this instant, a member of the Communist Party? Mr. WEINTRAUB. The same answer as to the previous question. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff interrogation of this witness. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. John Andrew Negro. Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman administers an oath. Mr. WILLIS. Kindly raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about to give to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. NEGRO. I do. TESTIMONY OF JOHN ANDREW NEGRO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, GEORGE R. ANDERSEN Mr. ARENS. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation. Mr. NEGRO. My name is Andrew Negro. My residence is 450 Clipper Street, and I say that knowing that within that audience there is a group here for the purpose to intimidate my family and myself. I say that also knowing that the same person has intimidated two people here, threatening to kill them, murder them. You are responsible by taking me here and putting my family in jeopardy so crackpots like that can exist. My occupation is a house painter. Mr. ARENS. You are appearing today, Mr. Negro, in response to a subpena which was served upon you by this committee? Mr. NEGRO. In reluctance. Mr. ARENS. And you are represented by counsel? Mr. NEGRO. I am represented by counsel but he cannot speak. Mr. ARENS. Counsel, will you kindly speak up and identify yourself before this committee? Mr. ANDERSEN. This is hardly speaking, but my name is George Andersen. Mr. ARENS. Now, sir, have you ever been engaged in seamen activities of any kind, waterfront activities? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. Yes, I have been a seaman. Mr. ARENS. Over what period of time were you a seaman? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. Approximately 7 or 8 years. Mr. ARENS. Could you give us those years, please, roughly? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. To my recollection it was 1942 to 1950. Mr. ARENS. And in what capacity did you serve as a seaman! Mr. NEGRO. As a seaman, I sailed in the capacity of messman, ordinary seaman and able-bodied seaman. Mr. ARENS. What year was it that you were no longer a seaman! When did you depart from that activity? Mr. NEGRO. Do you mean when I stopped sailing? Mr. ARENS. Yes. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. ARENS. Just your best recollection. Mr. NEGRO. 1950, around 1950. Mr. ARENS. What caused your disassociation from the seaman's vocation or occupation? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. I got hurt, injured on a ship. Mr. ARENS. Did you have seaman's papers during all of the time of your employment as a seaman on vessels? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. I always had seaman papers at the time that I sailed Mr. ARENS. Did you ever have your seaman's papers lifted or denied? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. No, they were not. Mr. ARENS. And then what was your principal occupation after you concluded your service as a seaman? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. I went into the Army of the United States. Mr. ARENS. During your service as a seaman on vessels, what vessels did you sail on, the nature of the vessels? Were they merchant vessels or what were they? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. I sailed on many kinds of vessels. I don't see where this is pertinent to this hearing here. Mr. ARENS. During the course of your work, or during the period of your service on vessels, were you a member of the Communist Party? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. Would you turn out these lights here? They are ing. They give the business of a third degree. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. Would you repeat the last question? blind Mr. ARENS. Yes. Kindly tell this committee if, during your period of service as a seaman on the vessels, at any time you were a member of the Communist Party. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. I would like to make a statement about that. In a sense, I would like to read what Jimmy Roosevelt said before the House of Congress, and my conviction is that the House Un-American Activities Committee is closer to being dangerous to America in its concepts than most of what it is investigating. My conviction is that it is continuing discredit to the country and more immediately to this House. My conviction is that so long as we continue its existence we must equally share the guilt for the evil for which it does. It has been an agency for the destruction of human dignity and constitutional rights. We have been accustomed to think of those whom it subpenas and labels as victims rather than witnesses. Mr. ARENS. Is that the only response you care to make to the question as to whether or not you were a member of the Communist Party during your service on these vessels? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. I use the first amendment because you have no right to interfere with my private life, and also the fifth amendment. Mr. ARENS. Were you a member of the Communist Party during your service in the military? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. The same answer. Mr. ARENS. Are you now, this instant, a member of the Communist Party? Mr. NEGRO. Same answer. Mr. ARENS. Now, sir, when you were served with your subpena to appear before this committee, the 18th day of April-excuse me, the 27th day of April, 1960-did you thereafter at any time prior to your appearance here today meet with persons known by you to be members of the Communist Party for the purpose of receiving instructions as to the conduct which you and others were to indulge in in regard to this committee and this hearing? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. This question is intimidating and you are attempting to intimidate me. You, sir, are a disgrace to the American people. You are responsible for the demonstrations that take place outside. You have time to time called these demonstrations of students who wish for the question of democracy, who have come to witness democracy, you have called it treason. I will not cooperate with this type of a committee. My answer is the same as the previous, the first and fifth. Mr. ARENS. Have you been in session regarding the conduct of yourself and others in regard to these hearings, with international Communist agent, Frank Wilkinson, who sits in the front row of these hearings today? Mr. NEGRO. You are disgraceful in your accusations of accusing people that you don't even have on the stand, with the ability to defend themselves. The same answer, the first and fifth. Mr. ARENS. To your certain knowledge, were these demonstrations which have been taking place encouraged by persons known by you to a certainty to be members of the Communist Party? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. Sir, I have been sitting in this room since the time I came in this morning. From my knowledge, the students wanted to enter this place here and see what was taking place. You are the cause for the heads that are broken, you are the cause for the backs that are broken or any other things that happened to these students. You are the cause of it. By entering this city of San Francisco you are the cause of it. These students showed their will and love for democracy. They attempted to preserve that right, and you, sir, 56597-60-pt. 2-6 have said time and time again that those that do that are treason. Mr. WILLIS. All right, Mr. Counsel, proceed in another area. Mr. ARENS. Have you been in session in the course of the last sereral days with Harry Bridges? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. Will you repeat that question? Mr. ARENS. Have you been in session in the course of the last several days with Harry Bridges? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. NEGRO. Ridiculous question. Mr. ARENS. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude the staff interrogation of this witness. Mr. WILLIS. The witness is excused. Mr. ARENS. The next witness is Sally Attarian Sweet. Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman administers an oath. Mr. Chairman, the reporter has indicated that he would like to have a brief recess. Would the chairman be disposed to order a 5-minute recess? (Members of the subcommittee present at time of recess: Representatives Willis and Johansen.) (At the expiration of the recess the following members of the subcommittee were present: Representives Willis and Johansen.) Mr. WILLIS. The subcommittee will come to order. Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mrs. SWEET. I do. TESTIMONY OF SALLY ATTARIAN SWEET, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, EDWARD NEWMAN Mr. ARENS. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation. Mrs. SWEET. My name is Mrs. Sally Sweet. I live in Hayward, and I am a legal secretary. Mr. ARENS. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served upon you by this committee? Mrs. SWEET. I am, at my place of work. Mr. ARENS. And you are represented by counsel? Mrs. SWEET. My counsel is present. I don't feel I am represented by him. Mr. ARENS. Counsel, would you kindly identify yourself on this record? Mr. NEWMAN. My name is Edward Newman. My office is in Hayward, Calif. Mr. ARENS. How long have you lived in Alameda County? (The witness conferred with her counsel.) Mrs. SWEET. I would like to say that if it is true that the purpose of this committee and the sole purpose in being here today is to get facts upon which they can present legislation to Congress, then by their |