(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. DEIRUP. Yes; I am invoking all of the provisions, and I would like to add I didn't have this in my notes before I came because I didn't realize that our Congressman here was seated illegally in Congress, so I would like to add to it the fourteenth amendment.

Mr. ARENS. Now, would you kindly tell us if you joined the Young Communist League while you were a student at the University of California?

Mrs. DEIRUP. I think I have made my position clear on all these questions.

Mr. WILLIS. You are directed to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. DEIRUP. My answer is the same as before. It is the same as the last one.

Mr. ARENS. Do you have present, current information, ma'am, which you can supply to this committee respecting the identifications and activities in northern California of persons who, to your certain knowledge, are now, or in the recent past have been, members of the Communist Party?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. DEIRUP. If I was so fortunate as to have all this valuable information, I wouldn't give it to you anyway.

Mr. ÁRENS. You are on the County Committee, so we understand. of the Communist Party, and we thought perhaps you might have some information that could be of service to this committee.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. DEIRUP. If you have all these answers from such reliable and unimpeachable sources

Mr. ARENS. Are you on the Alameda County Committee of the Communist Party?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. DEIRUP. I was attempting to answer the question.

Mr. ARENS. I will withdraw the next to last question, and have the last question be the principal outstanding question, namely, are you on the County Committee of Alameda County of the Communist Party?

Mrs. DEIRUP. If I have done anything illegal, I think you should take me into court where I can have adequate counsel.

Mr. ARENS. Now, would you kindly respond to the question? Does that complete your answer?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) Mrs. DEIRUP. My answer is the same.

tion on the grounds previously stated.

I decline to answer that ques

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. WILLIS. The witness is excused.

The committee will stand in recess until 1:15.

(Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., Friday, May 13, 1960, the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 1:15 p.m. the same day.)

(Members of the subcommittee present at the time of recess: Representatives Willis and Johansen.)

AFTERNOON SESSION-FRIDAY, MAY 13, 1960

(The subcommittee reconvened at 1:40 p.m., Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.)

Mr. WILLIS. The subcommittee will please come to order.

(Members of the subcommittee present at time of reconvening: Representatives Willis and Johansen.)

Mr. WILLIS. Again I want to say that we appreciate the cooperation of people within the hearing room. We are glad to have you. We will not have disturbances here. We will just go about our business and I know that everything will work out all right.

Mr. Arens, call your next witness.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Karl Prussion, kindly come forward to the witness table and remain standing while the chairman administers an oath, if you please, sir.

Mr. WILLIS. Please raise your right hand.

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. PRUSSION. I so do.

TESTIMONY OF KARL PRUSSION

Mr. ARENS. I want to be certain that you are situated in proper relationship to the microphone, Mr. Prussion.

Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation.

Mr. PRUSSION. My name is Karl Prussion. I reside in Los Altos, California. My address is Box 396, Los Altos. I am a metallurgical engineer by profession and a builder by choice.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Prussion, I expect in the course of this interrogation to cover a number of areas with you. At the outset I should like to ask you first of all, have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. PRUSSION. I have been a member of the Communist Party for approximately 26 years.

Mr. ARENS. When did you join the Communist Party and when did you finally, irrevocably, disassociate yourself from the Communist Party?

Mr. PRUSSION. I joined the Communist Party in 1933, and I irrevocably disassociated myself from the Communist Party on August 12, 1959.

Mr. ARENS. Where did you join the Communist Party?

Mr. PRUSSION. I joined the Communist Party in Detroit, Michigan. Mr. ARENS. And over what period of time did you serve in the Communist Party in Detroit, Michigan?

Mr. PRUSSIAN. I served in the Communist Party in Detroit, Michigan, from 1933 until 1940, then I went to New Mexico for 2 years. Mr. ARENS. Did you, during all or part of your membership in the Communist Party, have a membership in which you were a dedicated Communist, ideologically in complete accord with the party? Mr. PRUSSION. Yes.

Mr. ARENS. Over what period of your service in the Communist Party were you in that status?

Mr. PRUSSION. From 1933 through 1938.

Mr. ARENS. And then tell us just in capsule form so we have the broad perspective of your service, what happened at that time? Mr. PRUSSION. Do you mean in 1938?

Mr. ARENS. In 1938, so far as your membership in the party was concerned.

Mr. PRUSSION. Well, in 1938, because of a whole series of events that happened within the Communist Party, I became thoroughly disillusioned with the machinations of the Communist Party and did not break with the party nor did I get expelled from the Communist Party, but became a reluctant Communist trying to get out from that time until I finally convinced the Federal Bureau of Investigation of my sincerity in my efforts to help our Government in the fight against the Communist menace.

Mr. ARENS. Did you shortly thereafter become reaffiliated with the Communist Party at the behest and with the cooperation of the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

Mr. PRUSSION. Yes; I so did.

Mr. ARENS. And when did you then reaffiliate yourself with the Communist Party? Just approximately. That is, as an FBI undercover agent.

Mr. PRUSSION. As an FBI undercover agent it was the latter part of 1947 in the city of Carmel, California.

Mr. ARENS. Then did you continuously serve in the Communist Party in various posts, in various activities, which we will explore later on, at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? Mr. PRUSSION. That is correct, sir.

Mr. ARENS. And you continued in that capacity until you were, what we call, surfaced in this last year; is that correct?

Mr. PRUSSION. That is correct.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Prussion, without giving us details of your activity, tell us the various posts or assignments which you held in the Communist Party.

Mr. PRUSSION. Well, at the outset I was a section organizer of the West Side Section of the Communist Party in Detroit. I was the organizer for the Communist Party at the Ford Motor Car Co. I was a member of the District Committee, the District Industrial Commission of the Communist Party in Detroit.

In this area, California, where I came in late 1942, I was a sort of member-at-large with party contacts, visits, etc., but no formal local membership. Then I was in various cells and I was also a member of the Trade Union Commission of the Communist Party in Santa Clara County.

Mr. ARENS. Now, Mr. Prussion, as a point of departure in our interrogation of you today, may I ask you this first fundamental question:

Based upon your background and extensive experience in the Communist Party, first as a dedicated Communist and thereafter as a person in the conspiratorial activities of the party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation serving your Government, tell this Committee on Un-American Activities how serious is the Communist operation now on American soil?

Mr. PRUSSION. It is my sincere and honest opinion that never before in the history of the Communist Party of the United States has the situation been more critical for our democratic form of government.

The Communist Party in the United States today is more influential in economic, political, and social circles than ever in its history. In brief, the situation is indeed critical in view of the international situation, with the recent visit of Khrushchev to our shores, and the complications that are rapidly developing throughout the world.

I believe that the Communist Party is a conspiracy and that the party is definitely a menace to the well-being of our American way of life.

Mr. ARENS. Is the Communist Party a political party?

Mr. PRUSSION. The Communist Party isn't, never has been, and never will be, a political party.

Mr. ARENS. What is the Communist Party?

Mr. PRUSSION. The Communist Party is a conspiracy through which they intend ultimately, after they have achieved the prerequisites of the revolution, to overthrow our free enterprise system and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat by force and violence.

Mr. ARENS. Is the Communist Party an operation of the international Communist conspiracy on American soil?

Mr. PRUSSION. It so is.

Mr. ARENS. Are there Communists who are not technical members of the Communist Party?

Mr. PRUSSION. I would like to enlarge on that, if you don't mind, sir. Mr. ARENS. If you please, sir.

Mr. PRUSSION. The Communist Party has a varied type of membership. They have one type of member who attends cell meetings, pays his dues. They have another type of Communist, because he doesn't want to identify himself with the cell for fear of exposure by an informant such as myself, who has a courier pay his dues.

Then there are many, many Communists who have dropped out of the Communist Party, conveniently, so that they can hide their identity and in that way are better able to carry out the revolutionary work. There is a fourth type of Communist who is never associated with a cell, but he is a Leninist, and so imbued with the forthcoming revolution that he works diligently wherever possible and keeps contact with Communist leaders on the higher level.

This type of a Communist is usually a doctor, a lawyer, a political official and in the professional field of life.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Prussion, in the course of the last day or so here we have had a number of people who have been identified to us by responsible people as members of the conspiracy, who have sat in that very chair in which you are now sitting and castigated this committee, saying, in effect, that our objectives are to deprive people of employment, smear people, and the like, although this committee tries as sincerely as we possibly can to proceed on the basis of fairness and impartiality. Can you tell this committee, based upon your background and experience in the party, what has happened to you at the hands of the party since you surfaced and made known to the world that you were an undercover agent of the FBI, serving in the Communist conspiracy at the behest of your Government?

Mr. PRUSSION. The Communist Party, in the area in which I live and district-wise, has carried out a vicious campaign of vilification by spreading rumors as to my personality and character, in this manner trying to get the general citizenry of the area to disassociate them

selves with myself, in hopes that I would become disgusted and pick up and leave the area, and not carry on the fight against the Communist Party in the vicinity in which I live.

Mr. ARENS. Have pressures been brought to bear to try to preclude you from employment since you made it known to the world that you were serving as an undercover agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, trying to get information for your Government?

Mr. PRUSSION. That is definitely true. Because of the nature of the rumors spread about myself

Mr. ARENS. Is your family presently fearful-I know you told me last evening of certain incidents I will not ask you to repeat-in general, is your family, your wife and children, are they presently fearful of recriminations by the party against you because you served your Government in this conspiracy?

Mr. PRUSSION. Yes; they are.

Mr. ARENS. One other preliminary question before we begin to trace your activities in the party and reveal on this record information respecting its present activities here in this area.

Tell us a word about Communist Party discipline.

Mr. PRUSSION. When a person first joins the Communist Party and he reads their literature, their pamphlets, attends meetings, listens to lectures, and goes to their specialized and general schools, and when he begins to participate in violent activities and peaceful activities in the interest of the forthcoming revolution, he finds himself very shortly in the grip of Communist discipline from which it is difficult to dislodge oneself.

Mr. ARENS. Give us a word as to the nature of that discipline, please, sir.

Mr. PRUSSION. Within the Communist Party there is total disregard for law. Within the Communist Party there are rigged trials, forced confessions, provocations of suicides of Communists who have deviated, reprisals against Communists who might deviate on party strategy.

All of these things are part and parcel of the essence of law within the Communist Party.

Mr. ARENS. To what extent does the Communist Party in its discipline over the comrades, control their personal lives, their marital lives, their family lives?

Mr. PRUSSION. The Communist Party controls a member of the Communist Party throughout his life, and right through death they have complete control of a Communist Party member.

A Communist Party member-and this is almost hard to believe, but it is unfortunately very true-finds himself always believing to be true the line of the Communist International. If on one day the Communist International orders one tactic, he will carry it out and believe in it. If the very next day the Communist International orders another tactic, he will turn a somersault and actually believe it to be the truth and carry it out to the best of his ability.

This inner obedience to communism, to its directives, is a most startling characteristic of a Communist that is very difficult to describe. Mr. ARENS. Now with these preliminary observations out of the way, or covered here, I should say, Mr. Prussion, I will have a number of specific questions to ask you about Communist techniques and the like.