Mr. ARENS. Were you a leader in the East Bay region of the Comnunist Party, the East Bay region comprising Alameda and Contra Costa Counties?

! (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. Same answer.

Mr. ARENS. We display to you now, if you please, a thermofax eproduction of an article appearing in the Daily People's World of January 4, 1957, in which the Communist press, itself, describes you n that capacity.

Kindly look at that document and tell this committee while you are under oath whether or not that identification of yourself in that capacity, by the Communist press, was true and correct. (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. ANDERSEN. There are two. Do you want us to read them both? Mr. ARENS. Just turn to the back page which gives the description and identification by the Communist press of this man.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Would you show it to us, please.

Mr. ARENS. Show it to him, Mr. Wheeler.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. ANDERSEN. This has an exhibit 6 on it. You mean the reverse of that, the reverse of the page where the six is written.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. Same answer.

(Document marked "Brodsky Exhibit No. 3," and retained in committee files.)

Mr. ARENS. Did you file an income tax return for the years 1951, 1952, 1953, or 1954?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. What is the pertinency of that?

Mr. ARENS. I am glad you asked me, because I want the record to reflect what we think is the pertinency of that, namely, that it is the Information of this committee that during 1951, 1952, 1953, and 1954, you obliterated your identity, went into the underground of the conspiratorial apparatus, the Communist Party, and we would like to ask you whether or not during that period of years, 1951 through 1954, you revealed to the Federal Government via the income tax reurn device from whence you gained your income.

(The witness conferred with counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. Mr. Chairman, you seem to be alluding to the fact hat you have some forms or something, income tax forms, before you. What confuses me and what I want answered is my understanding hat income tax forms are sacred property that are not to be revealed o anyone.

If that is the case, I want to know from this committee, what is our access to the income tax forms of the people of this country. Are you now going into this question?

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness ow be ordered and directed to answer the question.

Mr. WILLIS. Yes.

Mr. BRODSKY. Do you illegally have forms? If you do, you are legally asking question.

I want to know. Does this committee have income tax forms? Are you going into that area now? What area are you going to leave ntouched!

I have a right to ask that question on the income tax forms. They is a Department of Revenue in this country and not an un-America committee. These things have been sacred.

I want to know how the committee crossed that line, I demand & answer to that.

Mr. ARENS. Now, sir, I

Mr. BRODSKY. Can I ask the chairman. He has authority here. You don't. I want to know.

Mr. WILLIS. Mr. Arens, ask him the direct question about the thre

years.

Mr. ARENS. Four years. The outstanding principal question is: Did you file a Federal income tax return for the years 1951, 1952, 195

and 1954?

I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and directed to answer the question.

Mr. WILLIS. Mr. Arens, you misunderstood me. You revealed the pertinency for the four years, but will you ask him that direct question and accomplish the same?

Mr. BRODSKY. May I ask, does this committee have income tax forms?

Mr. WILLIS. Ask the question directly.

Mr. BRODSKY. I am asking you directly, yes.

Mr. ARENS. I am a little confused as to the status of the record. Mr. WILLIS. He asked the pertinency of the question, I believe. Mr. ARENS. The purpose is to determine whether this man, during the period of time about which we have asked him, while he was in the underground, made a revelation to the Federal Government as to the sources of his income during the years 1951, 1952, 1953, and 1954.

I respectfully suggest the chairman order and direct the witness to answer the question.

asking: Has

Mr. BRODSKY. This is a sacred question we are going into, income tax forms. Never before have I known of a committee entitled to start asking people about their income tax forms. I am the Un-American Committee started now to look into the tax form of the American people?

I am entitled to ask that. If not, have you the forms? What in formation do you base this on? Forget the other question. Please, try to answer my simple question in a simple matter and no about Hungary and all of that.

Mr. ARENS. I would be happy to answer that question.

This Committee on Un-American Activities does not have income

tax forms, nor is the Committee on Un-American Activities investgating the income tax forms.

Mr. BRODSKY. Why are you asking me? If you want other information, why don't you ask the other information? Why have you

are beating around the bush.

(Disturbance in the hearing room.)

Mr. WILLIS. Now wait a minute.

You youngsters were outside because there were no seats. We brought you in here. I'd like to have you hear the hearing, but we are

not going to permit disturbances. You were not here a while ago

when I said it.

Mr. ARENS. I want an explanation on this record, because we reard this as a crucial question, a crucial line of inquiry.

This record presently reflects that this witness, by documentation of he conspiracy itself is, and has been, a member of the Communist 'arty.

We have confronted this witness with the information of this comnittee that during 4 years, 1951, 1952, 1953 and 1954, this witness was ngaged in the underground of the conspiracy, the Communist Party. We have asked him now three or four times to put on the record thether or not he filed Federal income tax returns for those years reealing the sources of his income.

I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness be ordered and irected to answer the question.

Mr. BRODSKY. The chairman looked like he wanted to say somehing. Do you want to say something?

Mr. WILLIS. I think the question is perfectly proper the way counel has asked it.

Mr. BRODSKY. You think it is proper for this committee to ask any American citizen about their income tax forms.

Mr. WILLIS. I've been awfully patient and I think decent with you. Now, let me say this: He has told you, of course, we do not have ncome tax forms or income tax information. He has asked you a irect question whether, during those 4 years, you filed an income tax eturn, which might show your employment during those 4 years. You have declined to give it. That is all this is about. So I direct you to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. Mr. Chairman, in view of the statement of the ounsel and the accusations of the counsel, he apparently is accusing e of something and, therefore, I have to decline on the same rounds.

Mr. WILLIS. Proceed to the next question.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, is the record clear that this witness has een ordered and directed to answer the question?

Mr. WILLIS. Yes, I ordered him and he reiterated his denial. (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. I gave the same answer. If he wants me to spell it t, you have heard it spelled out before.

Mr. WILLIS. I ordered you to answer, and you gave the same anver, based on the same reliance on the first and fifth amendments. he record so shows.

Mr. ARENS. Are you now one of the leaders of the East Bay region the Communist Party?

Mr. BRODSKY. I don't think this committee has any right to inire into my political beliefs.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be dered and directed to answer that question.

Mr. WILLIS. The question is proper, and I order you to answer it. (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. Mr. Chairman, this question, it seems to me, goes the heart of the question. I am being asked what are my political liefs. In essence, I am being asked who would I vote for, who uld I support, who would I be for, who would I be against.

I am being asked in the most straightforward way a question the the first amendment of the Constitution clearly says nobody ther after, whether it be a Mr. What's-His-Name or anybody else, wo have the right to say to any person, what political party do you be long to, are you a Communist, are you a Democrat, are you a Republ can, how do you stand on this question, a public body calling you befor the newspapers, the television, and saying, "Here, you no longer have political privacy."

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, first, I must say that from the most deepest conviction, first I must defend the first amendment of the Constitution by relying on it.

Secondly, Mr. Chairman, and I say this again in deep consciousness I think it is presumptuous that from an area of where three hundred thousand people are denied the right to vote, or denied the right of political expression to say how, in a secret manner in a ballot box, they want to stand, that a committee chaired by such a person dares as me what is my political belief.

Therefore, on the grounds of the fourteenth amendment I must take this.

Further, Mr. Chairman, my recollection of history, and I belie it is correct, is that after the inquisitorial period of where bodies that had no right were able to assume power, power through control of mediums of communication and publication, were able to drag peop before them and say, "Are you a believer or are you not a believer. a law was passed that said when you reach a point like this, when other laws can't be used to defend you, such as your right of freedom of speech and press, we give you one more weapon, tell that committee they can't compel you to be a witness against yourself.

And I tell you, Mr. Chairman, and I tell you, committee, I stand of

that sacred amendment.

I will not be compelled to be a witness against myself.

Mr. ARENS. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you told this committee truthfully, while you were under oath, whether or not you are presently a leader of the East Bay region of the Communist Party, you would be supplying information which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. Mr. Chairman, I have told him-I forget his name I have told him answers to a number of questions, the essence of which is my politics is none of his business and I have to give the same answer, just none of his business.

I state again my politics is none of this committee's business. The is what I state, and I state it backing me up with the constitutions provisions which says you can tell a committee like this it is none of their business. That is what I am doing.

Mr. WILLIS. Proceed.

Mr. ARENS. Yes, but could you help this committee by telling whether or not you have ever used the name Steve Bradley! (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. WILLIS. That is a simple question, it is a pertinent question

and I order you to answer it.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

1

Mr. BRODSKY. I have to have clarification; he asked me if I am oing to help this committee and I am not going to help this commite in any way.

Please, don't accuse me of helping the committee. That is a queson that needs rephrasing.

Mr. WILLIS. Ask him the direct question.

Mr. ARENS. Have you ever used the name Steve Bradley?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRODSKY. Same answer, the first, fifth, fourteenth, eighth mendments.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conlude the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. WILLIS. The witness is excused.

Mr. ARENS. The next witness, if you please, will be Martin Marcus. Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman dministers an oath.

Mr. WILLIS. Kindly raise your right hand.

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give efore this subcommittee, will be the truth, the whole truth, and othing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. MARCUS. I do.

TESTIMONY OF MARTIN IRVING MARCUS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, CHARLES A. STEWART

Mr. ARENS. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu

ation.

Mr. MARCUS. My name is Martin I. Marcus. I reside at 1498 Peco venue, Pacific Grove, Calif. I am a teacher.

Mr. ÁRENS. Mr. Marcus, you are appearing today in response to a abpena which was served upon you by this committee?

(Witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. MARCUS. Would you repeat the question?

Mr. ARENS. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which as served upon you by this committee?

Mr. MARCUS. That is correct.

Mr. ARENS. You are represented by counsel?

Mr. MARCUS. Yes, I am.

Mr. ARENS. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.

Mr. STEWART. My name is Charles A. Stewart, attorney at law, praccing in Carmel, Calif., Lincoln at Seventh.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Marcus, are you now, or have you ever been, a memer of the Communist Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. MARCUS. Could you please explain to me the specific legislation hich is pertinent to this question which you have asked me? (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. MARCUS. Could you please give me the title of the bill, or bills? Mr. ARENS. The explanation which I shall now make to the witness s to the pertinency of that question is that this Committee on Unmerican Activities, pursuant to a mandate of the Congress of the nited States, is undertaking to develop factual information respectg the operation of the Communist Party, its techniques, its strate