In the Resolution on the Negro Question, the point is made now by he Communist Party, after all these many years, that the Negro eople in the United States are not a nation. All the time that I was n the Communist Party, with sort of a brief lapse under Earl Brower, and that was not spelled out very well, the Negro people in the lack belt of the South, where they are in an area of majority, a cerain area, were considered to be a separate nation with a right to écede. Now the Communist Party at this last convention, the 17th conventon, has gone on record that they are not a nation. But the practical rogram remains the same, of trying to get a hold among the Negro eople for a force to support the Communists' program. (See Committee Exhibit No. 19, App. p. 2276.) Resolution On the 1960 Elections-this document calls for utilizng the elections to get the program of the Communist Party across. The point here is that the program that is put out by the Communist Party for the election is not for the solution of our problems. It might appear so on the surface, but when you add the whole hing together you will find, and you will readily see, it is not for a olution of the problems, whatever problems there may be; on the ontrary, it is for an aggravation of the problems in order to have a risis for the Communists to take over. Part of this is calling for so much spending in all directions and aising so much dissension in so many directions that it will eventually ocus on the Government itself, to try to make the people realize that t is the Government as a whole that has to be gotten rid of, not just olving these problems. (See Committee Exhibit No. 20, App. p. 2286.) Mr. ARENS. On that point, to what extent do the Communists, from our experience, engage in what we call political subversion, namely, ressure public officials to take a position which is favorable to the mmediate objective of the Communists? Mrs. HARTLE. That is a very, very important activity in the Comunist Party. In fact, I don't know which activity is more imortant or comes in for more time and effort than writing letters, nding petitions and delegations, and such and such, to Congressmen nd Senators, and Governors, Mayors, and what have you. That is a ry important part of Communist activity. Mr. ARENS. They tell us, sneeringly, they can have 50,000 letters Capitol Hill on any subject under the sun in 72 hours. Do you ink that is an exaggeration, or, based upon your background and perience, do you think they are able, by enlisting the dupes and e suckers on any particular issue in which they are interested, to ess the button and get the letters in Washington? Mrs. HARTLE. That is no exaggeration, I assure you. Mr. ARENS. But they don't reveal it in their letters, in their corspondence, and in their petitions to the public officials that they Communists or that it is a Communist operation, do they? Mrs. HARTLE. And many of the people that write the letters don't ow that it has anything to do with communism at that moment. t I would like to clarify that, because they will say: "Well, then, nobody knows, what difference does it make?" It makes this difference: The Communists work with these peop they get them to write these letters, they go to their homes, they g their names on the list. They recruit into the Communist Party th best prospects out of them, and they, in turn, then lead the rest of them A small force leads a large group of people, because if the Com munists were just out here talking about Negro rights or labor rights and that is all they were doing, surely they have as much right to d that as anybody else. But what they do is build the conspiracy, bul the Communist Party, what they call the conspiracy, and organize & lot of other activities that you don't know about, and that they don't come out in the open about; such things as hiding mimeograph machines, having undercover people here and there, and all kinds of ways of contact that nobody knows about, and a system whereby everybodṛ will leave home overnight and not be available in case of an arrest or something like that. There is a lot that the Communist Party does that it doesn't com to this committee with and say: "What is the matter with us? There is nothing wrong with us." Mr. ARENS. I might suggest with some degree of apology for the constant interruptions I have caused, in view of the time element our stay, that I would appreciate it if we could conclude your geners. presentation in another 10 or 15 minutes. Mrs. HARTLE. I think that will be highly possible. Mr. ARENS. Again I say, I am responsible for consuming so much of your time, but there are so many elements that I thought this re ord ought to reflect, based upon your extensive background and expe rience, and based on the obvious-to those of us who are in this workthat we are losing to a few conspirators. Mrs. HARTLE. There was a resolution on Puerto Rico at the 17th Convention. The Communist Party has had an interest in this ques tion of Puerto Rico for many years. When I attended the nationa convention in New York in 1945, I, myself, introduced the resolutio to the convention for the independence of Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is considered by the Communist Party to be a colony of American imperialism, and that this colony should be free. They say it is Yankee imperialism holding down this colony. That is the program for Puerto Rico, and if the program is carried through will be similar to that in Cuba, excepting that it will be the United States instead of Batista that is on the receiving end there, which wil probably make it even worse. (See Committee Exhibit No. 22, App. p. 2300.) The Draft Resolution on Party Organization talks about how to build party organization and how to do it in united front work, which I mentioned a moment ago. It is not united front work if you don build the Communist Party; it is not Communist work. A man can be in a trade union from now on and be a good trade union leader, but he must recruit into the Communist Party, get subscribers to the Communist press, hand out Communist literature, and spread the Communist propaganda to the most likely persons. (See Committee Exhibit No. 23, App. p. 2302.) Mr. ARENS. Most of which is not revealed, per se, as Communist literature, is it? Mrs. HARTLE. Most of which is not. But there is always that element in there of recruiting a few people in order to bring what they consider the best elements in to help operate and strengthen the conspiracy itself, which has to have replacements from time to time. On the question of disarmament, the resolution carries on at great length about the need for disarmament for the United States, but it leaves it pretty well up in the air about disarmament anyplace else. Maybe they will say that that is not their province, but it doesn't seem to bother them when it is on another subject that they do want to talk about. (See Committee Exhibit No. 24, App. p. 2308.) There is a document entitled Preconvention Discussion which shows that in the pre-convention discussion a Communist Party line on all the main issues had already been given and that the discussion was directed, because the resolution and keynote report of Gus Hall are very much along the lines of the so-called discussion before the convention. (See Committee Exhibit No. 25, App. p. 2316.) In the report on the constitution, there were quite a number of changes made in the constitution of the Communist Party of the USA, and it is my experience in the Communist Party that the constitution is changed fairly regularly to meet the exigencies of the situation. (See Committee Exhibit No. 26, App. p. 2335.) Mr. ARENS. At previous conventions did they change the constitution in order to meet the changing legislative devices which this committee attempts to recommend to cope with the conspiracy? Mrs. HARTLE. Yes; that is right. I have been in discussions in the national convention where those very matters were discussed, how the wording can be so you can get the Marxism-Leninism across, and still avoid legal prosecution. That, I think, covers, as far as I can recall, the main points in these ocuments. Mr. ARENS. We appreciate your general summary, Mrs. Hartle. Your interpretation of these documents of the National Committee of he Communist Party will help lay a foundation for other matters which we want to go into. I would respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude he staff interrogation of Mrs. Hartle, but I would like to request, f it is agreeable with her, that she might keep herself available the course of the next day or so, because we may have overlooked ome item on which we would like to have the benefit of her judgent and interpretation in this record before we conclude our sessions ere in San Francisco. Mr. WILLIS. Thank you very much, Mrs. Hartle. Call your next witness. Mr. ARENS. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will Mr. Merle Brodsky. Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman Iministers an oath. Mr. Wheeler, would you kindly see that Mr. Merle Brodsky is ged-if he is in the hall? Mr. WILLIS. Please raise your right hand. TESTINCTY OF YERLE BRODSKY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL GECEGE R. ANDERSEN Mr. Azara, Kody Hentify yourself by name, residence, Mr. Branky. My name is Merle Brodsky. I live at 3915 Patter un. Aren, e, Onard I am a tile mason. Mr. Arass. You are appearing today. Mr. Brodsky, in response t a subpens which was served upon you by this committee? Mr. Bwaxy. I-just a moment. (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. BRODSKY. Yes; I am appearing in response to a subpena. Mr. ARENS. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. Mr. ANDERSEN. George R. Andersen, 240 Montgomery, attorne at law. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Brodsky, do we have the spelling of your nam correct -B-r-o-d-s-k-y? Mr. BRODSKY. That is correct. Mr. ARENS. Have you ever used any name other than the nar Merle Brodsky, pursuant to which you are appearing here today" (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. BRODSKY. I would like to know from the committee, for clarification, what is the pertinency of this question in relationship your function here? Mr. ARENS. I would be glad to explain it to you, sir. This Committee on Un-American Activities is under a mandat from the United States Congress to maintain a continuing surveillan over the administration and operation of the security laws of this s tion for the purpose of advising the Congress of the United States respecting the administration and operation of such laws as the Ir torial Security Act of 1950, the Communist Control Act of 1954, th Foreign Agents Registration Act, Espionage and Sabotage Act, for the purpose of advising the Congress respecting any amendment which the committed might feel the facts justify, respecting the ope5fans of this conspiratorial force on American soil known as the Cor muist Party and we activities of those conspirators popularly know In onder for 18 ammittee to make a sudied judgment, m s of the United States respec e underground; of the Communist tie-in with the international ommunist apparatus; of the Communist conditioning of the minds f people to believe that they are only liberals, that they are out to do od and the like; Communists using suckers and dupes to carry the ommunist line; Communists remaining in the background, maniputing those whom they are able to lay their hands on or to dupe. It is the information of this committee, sir, that you are now a hardre Communist conspirator; that in the past you have obliterated 1 identification of yourself and have used an alias and have been, r some several years, in the Communist conspiracy, in the Comunist underground. If you, sir, while you are under oath, will answer this first question hich I have just posed to you, as to whether or not you have ever ed an alias, I intend to pursue this line of inquiry. I intend to ask you what alias you used. I intend to ask you under hat circumstances you used it. I intend to pursue with you not your liefs, not your associations, not your political concepts as these ipes are taught to use against this committee. In intend to ask you out your conspiratorial activities on behalf of this awful force hich is sweeping the world. I intend to ask you, sir, about what part you are playing now in is area to further the program Witness Hartle just announced as rt and parcel of the program of this conspiratorial force on Amerin soil, all for the purpose of having information which this mmittee might take back to Washington; that its research staff can alyze and interpret it, so that the Committee on Un-American ctivities may advise the Congress of the United States in the disarge of its legislative duties to try to cope with this conspiracy hich would destroy freedom in this country. Now, sir, with that explanation, I respectfully request you to swer the last outstanding principal question: Have you ever used y name other than the name Merle Brodsky? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. BRODSKY. I am sorry, but all I got there was a speech. I am not lowing you. Mr. ARENS. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this record w reflect an order and direction to this witness to answer the outanding question or suffer the possibility of contempt citation. Mr. BRODSKY. May I answer the question first? Am I not entitled to ask clarification? I didn't understand the tement. Mr. WILLIS. I order you to answer it. You have your counsel to vise you whether you should or not. The witness conferred with his counsel.) Ir. BRODSKY. I would have to say, Mr. Chairman, that, in light the way the counsel placed this, he has accused me of crimes, he threatened me with all sorts of things; that the only alternative ave is to utilize, first, the first amendment, my right and privilege freedom of speech and press and privacy of it; secondly, the fournth amendment, that this committee is constituted illegally because chairman of this committee represents a district where there are r 300,000 voters and only 8,000 voters in that district, or over 00; and also on the grounds, and especially in light of the way the |