at the parliament building. Some of the group started to pull down a statue of Stalin which was on a site previously occupied by the Catholic Church, and a statue of Stalin had been erected. Others went to the radio building, and they wanted to broadcast 16 points of their demands. A group of four or five people went into the building. Nobody asked whether they were allowed to enter, and after they didn't come back for more than half an hour, the people began to be worried about them and asked the guards what happened, and the guards ther started shooting at the unarmed group. Mr. ARENS. The guards started shooting at the unarmed group? Mr. SZENTENDREY. Yes. They also brought in Hungarian military forces. Mr. ARENS. How old were these youngsters who participated in the demonstration at which the Communist regime shot into the crowd? Mr. SZENTENDREY. The students were from high-school age to abou 25. They were at the age when people are usually at universities. Mr. ARENS. About 150 Hungarians were executed the other day They were alleged to have been participants in this freedom fight, thi struggle for freedom. They were 14 or 15 years of age when they participated and, according to the information we have, they wer executed right after they had reached the age of 18. Is there a law there in Hungary under this Communist regim that allows them to keep youngsters 14 to 15 until they reach 18 an then kill them? Mr. SZENTENDREY. According to the civil law, no; but according t the military law, if somebody has passed 16 years of age at the tim of committing a crime, he can be executed. Mr. ARENS. What happened next, after the guard shot into th crowd of students who were peacefully demonstrating against th regime in public? Mr. SZENTENDREY. The people, surprisingly enough, disbande But then they attacked the guards with bare hands, took awa the weapons from some of them, and then the soldiers who we brought into the neighboring streets started giving them heav weapons. Mr. ARENS. The soldiers of Hungary joined the students? Mr. ARENS. What happened next? Mr. SZENTENDREY. Then street fighting lasted for 4 or 5 days, an snipers were wiped out. Mr. ARENS. In their international propaganda which they d seminate to comrades and to those who are dupes in this apparat the Communists say that this Hungarian revolution was not a revol tion at all, that it was inspired by the Fascists and people like t Un-American Activities Committee, and the like. Was it a spc taneous revolt against communism in which you participated, or w it something inspired by Fascists, imperialists? Mr. SZENTENDREY. It started first against State authority. P haps it would not break out into a revolt if they did not shoot on t people, but the dissatisfaction was there and nobody liked the regir But without their attacking first, there would not have been anythin Mr. ARENS. We have taken voluminous testimony on our reco from time to time, as have other committees, respecting the awful suppression there by Khrushchev and his forces, and the open deceit, duplicity, and the like, where they took the peace negotiators from the freedom fighters out and slaughtered them, etc. We will not attempt to duplicate all that, but I only want to ask you what happened to you as a young freedom fighter there. Give us the account of what happened to you, please. Mr. SZENTENDREY. The next day I was arrested by the security police because of street fightings. I was kept in prison for several days. They called us Fascists and traitors and threatened to shoot us. I suppose they would have shot us if they had the courage to do so. They were shooting outside in the city, and I think that is what kept them from it. Mr. ARENS. How long did the secret police keep you? Mr. SZENTENDREY. For five days, until the freedom fighters won a strike attempt. Mr. ARENS. Then you eventually escaped and came to the West, to the free world? Mr. SZENTENDREY. Yes, after 3 or 4 more weeks in Hungary. Mr. ARENS. I did not want to duplicate the events of the uprising because it is so much a matter of public record now. I just want to ask you one final question, Mr. Szentendrey. You have seen communism in action, and you have lived as a student and young person under communism in action, you have seen what communism does, you have seen suppression by communism, and you have seen likewise, I am sure, some witnesses here today, young Americans who are Communists, who are in this apparatus. As the chairman said, the overwhelming majority of the young American people are not falling for this. Do you have any words that you can say now, as a youth who has lived under communism, to the other young people in the United States respecting this Communist operation which is penetrating the youth over the world? Mr. SZENTENDREY. I think I should say that communism has a face which it likes to show outside, and then it has its own practice of dealing with people and dealing with their countries it has occupied. In this second aspect it is very dangerous for all the human rights and the public freedoms-freedom of speech, religion, the church, and everything else. The Communist dictatorship is a dictatorship by a small minority of the people over the whole nation, and they do not have any contact. They have allegiance only to the Communists and the Communist Party. Mr. ARENS. Are these young people here who have been identified as Communists, free agents as Communists, or are they part of an apparatus of control and condition? Mr. SZENTENDREY. I think some of them are actually card-holding members of the party or just believe their ideology and they spread the ideology. They could be regarded as Communists. It is not so much a question of membership. Mr. ARENS. Are they free agents? Mr. SZENTENDREY. I think they are free agents on their own view and nobody forced them to be. Mr. ARENS. Is a Communist permitted to have free thoughts? Is he permitted to dissent? Is he permitted to have freedom in the sense that you and I can disagree on our philosophy or outlook? Mr. SZENTENDREY. Since they never do it, I don't think they are permitted to have their own critics. Mr. ARENS. I respectfully suggest this will conclude the staff interrogation of this witness. Mr. JOHANSEN. You spoke of communism as being dangerous to freedoms and rights. Is communism dangerous to the very rights of the Constitution of the United States which some of these witnesses before this committee in this hearing have invoked for their own protection? Mr. SZENTENDREY. Since communism overtly regards the United States as their No. 1 enemy, I think it is only fair to say that it is dangerous against the Constitution of the United States. The CHAIRMAN. The committee appreciates very much your cooperation. I might say, as an individual, having particpated in the plans under which you and other freedom fighters came to the United States, it makes me very proud of the fact that I did participate in assisting people like you who obviously appreciate those institutions that are so dear to all of us, and we appreciate your assistance very much. The committee is recessed. (Whereupon, at 12:30 o'clock p.m., February 5, 1960, the committee recessed subject to call of the Chair.) COMMUNIST TRAINING OPERATIONS (Communist Activities and Propaganda Among Youth Groups) Part 3 WEDNESDAY, MARCH 2, 1960 UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES, 1 EXECUTIVE SESSION The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 226, Old House Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiding. Subcommittee members: Representatives Francis E. Walter, chairman, Pennsylvania; Clyde Doyle, California; Edwin E. Willis, Louisiana; Donald L. Jackson, California; and Gordon H. Scherer, Ohio. Committee members present during hearings: Representatives Walter, Doyle, Scherer, and Johansen, Michigan. (Appearances as noted.) Staff members present: Richard Arens, staff director; Donald T. Appell and Robert H. Goldsborough, investigators. The CHAIRMAN. Would you rise please? Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. MARKMAN. I do. TESTIMONY OF MARVIN MARKMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, DAVID REIN Mr. ARENS. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation. Mr. MARKMAN. Marvin Markman, 2528 Cruger Avenue, student. Mr. ARENS. You are appearing today, Mr. Markman, in response to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activities? Mr. MARKMAN. That is correct. Mr. ARENS. You are represented by counsel? Mr. MARKMAN. Yes, I am. Mr. ARENS. Counsel, please identify yourself on this record. Mr. REIN. David Rein, R-e-i-n, 711 Fourteenth Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. The CHAIRMAN. What is the residence of the witness? Mr. ARENS. Mr. Markman, kindly give your age? Mr. MARKMAN. Twenty. Mr. ARENS. And would you give us a word about your educational background? Mr. MARKMAN. I was educated in New York City and graduated City College of New York with a bachelor of arts degree, 1960, January. Mr. ARENS. You are presently a student where? Mr. MARKMAN. I am not attending school this term. Mr. MARKMAN. I am not employed now. Mr. SCHERER. Where did you attend school last term? Mr. ARENS. Mr. Markman, some 3 or 4 weeks ago this committee took testimony with respect to activities of a number of young people who had attended the Seventh World Youth Festival held in Vienna. I should like to first of all display to you a thermofax copy of a letterhead entitled "United States Festival Committee, 246 Fifth Avenue, New York 1, N.Y.", on which are listed the national staff. On this letterhead appears, among other names, the following: "Chairman, Marvin Markman." Kindly look at that letterhead and tell this committee if you are properly identified there as chairman of the United States Festival Committee. Mr. MARKMAN. At this point I will have to refuse to answer that question on the following grounds: First of all, it is public knowledge that the festival aided in bringing young people from all parts of the world together in a spirit of friendship and mutual understanding. Today, when peace is the central issue facing mankind, these hearings counter the policies of the President in his attempts to achieve world peace and discourage young people in working for this goal. Secondly, of all, I feel these hearings attempt to stifle and harass young people who in their actions promote the democratic heritage of our country by attending such festivals, by defending the Bill of Rights, by working for civil rights and civil liberties. I don't believe this committee has any right to inquire into my political beliefs and associations. And I claim the benefits of the first and fifth amendments. I refuse to answer that question. (Document marked "Markman Exhibit No. 1" and retained in committee files.) Mr. ARENS. Will you tell us how you attained the status as chairman of the United States Festival Committee? Were you elected or were you appointed? Mr. MARKMAN. My answer remains the same to this question. Mr. ARENS. So we won't waste the committee's time or your time, do you here and now refuse to answer all questions respecting the United States Festival Committee and any status or post you may have occupied with it? Mr. MARKMAN. My answer remains the same. Mr. ARENS. Do you refuse to answer any questions respecting the United States Festival Committee and your chairmanship of it? |