PRISON ESCAPEES

Is the police department getting better coopeartion today than they did for quite a long period from the Department of Corrections with reference to these people that just walk off on a self-granted furlough from Lorton, or other correctional institutions, and where you don't even know they are at large until you bring them in?

Are you getting any better cooperation on that?

Sgt. DUNPHY. It is coming along just as you said. The other part of my office is the recidivism program which deals directly with that. And when they are a little slack in letting us know about certain things we remind them promptly about it, and then they comply very well. Mr. CABELL. It still makes a little problem.

Sgt. DUNPHY. Sometimes. Not as much as it did before. The system is starting to work much better.

Mr. CABELL. And they have modified the criteria to distinguish between AWOL and desertion. That AWOL period for awhile could extend over a pretty long period, as I recall. Is that still the case, or are they shortening that period before they report it?

Sgt. DUNPHY. They are shortening it up.

Mr. CABELL. Mr. Link.

Mr. LINK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to join with other members of the Committee and the Chairman of the Full Committee in complimenting the policemen's Association and those of you who have presented this very comprehensive report. It is very concise, and not too lengthy, but it covers the areas we are concerned with.

CRIME REDUCTION

I would like to inquire of you gentlemen, since we have taken cognizance of the reduction in the District of the incidence of crime, what areas specifically do you atribute this reduction to, what type of activity, what specifically do you think has resulted in the decrease in the crime rate?

Capt. RANDALL. As you probably know, Mr. Link, we just increased our force by a thousand men here a short time back. We have got fiftyone hundred policemen. And I think that had a great deal to do with the reduction in crime. Of course, we have created all kinds of new units, task squads and auto-interceptor squads, and we are just doing everything possible, and coming up with all kinds of new aids. And a lot of them seem to be working.

Mr. LINK. Thank you.

Not being a long time resident of acquainted with the city of Washington, D.C., but being one very much interested in it, since it is the capital city of all of us, no matter where we live, I want to ask the further question. Does the matter of more adequate lighting contribute to a reduction in the incidence of crime?

Sgt. COOPER. I would think so. I was going to say, the additional lighting in high crime areas has, I believe, caused more people not to be fearful of walking in those areas, you see more people in those

areas.

And then too, I think the improvement of the court system, the swiftness with which some of those offenders are brought to trial, serves a

little bit more as a detriment to a person who would be inclined to commit an offense.

Mr. LINK. In the case where you would indicate that more adequate lighting does contribute to better crime control and a greater feeling security by the residents of the area, do you have a working relationship with the other units of the city government that of course have as their prime responsibility providing the additional lighting, which of course is added expense? Do you have an on going program in the city for increasing the light in those areas that are not sufficiently light?

Sgt. DUNPHY. Mr. Link, I would feel that probably Chief Wilson could elaborate greatly in this area. I know we do have those types of programs. But I think when the time comes for the administration of the police department to testify, they could probably elaborate quite a bit in those areas. We do know that where the lighting is, the crime has decreased. And what specific programs the police department and the District governments are directly involved in I think the administration would probably be more qualified to answer than we could at this time.

Mr. LINK. The point I am getting at is, gentlemen, are you all the people directly responsible and concerned and in physical contact with the incident of crime. Where you detect those other factors that can fit in your program, do you have a campaign or a lobby that goes to the specific other units of the District government to present sufficiently the findings that you have, and thus get the total community, so to speak, involved in contributing to every aspect and at every level, so

that it is a total effort?

Sot. DUNPHY. I believe that is how the original improvements were made in the city, even though it is on just a small scale right now. But the cooperation between the Department-we have been seeking for many years any avenues that can help us in this constant fight that we have with the elements out on the street. And when we found out that lighting was a good tool we did use it, and we did push it as far as we could. And we have implemented it in certain places in the city, and we believe it will be promoted and furthered in the future.

Mr. LINK. Mr. Chairman, I merely want to share these observations with these gentlemen. Because we have purposely driven parts of the city at night, and this was one of the first reactions that we got, was that we felt very strongly that there were areas that were very inadequately lit. And certainly if one were to feel insecure, he wasn't secure in those areas. And also the effort of your force would be much easier in areas that are, I would say, very adequately lit in some sections of the city. And I wanted to share this observation with you, as one who has just recently come to the city.

Again, Mr. Chairman, I want to compliment the gentlemen for a very fine presentation.

And also I compliment the city Police and Firefighter's Associations and all those working with crime and correction and the social problems of the city for your continued efforts.

Sgt. COOPER. Thank you.

Mr. CABELL. Mr. Broyhill?

Mr. BROYHILL. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for being a little late. But we are trying to make up a revenue sharing, or rather deficit

sharing bill down in the Ways and Means Committee this morning. I want to associate myself with my colleagues in commending you not only for an excellent statement, which I have been able to read in part since I arrived, but also for the outstanding job that you have performed for the people of this community and the people of this country. I think the expressions here this morning are an indication of the high esteem in which your organization is held, not only by this Committee, but by the Congress as a whole.

Just a couple of brief questions, Mr. Chairman.

HELICOPTER PILOTS' PAY

You were discussing a moment ago the provision in the bill for additional flight pay for the helicopter pilots. That is included in the bill, is it not?

Sgt. COOPER. Yes.

HAZARDOUS DUTY PAY

Mr. BROYHILL. What about the demolition experts? Are there any provisions in the bill for additional pay for that group, or would they be entitled to additional hazardous pay?

Sgt. DUNPHY. Yes, sir. We have had conversations with the people who are involved in it. And at the particular time I believe there are only two policemen within the metropolitan police department who do this work. And we have had communications with them and the District government at the same time. And right at the present time I understand we are making provisions for those people to receive the technician's pay. Right at the present time as far as I know they receive no extra compensation for this duty. And we have asked that these two men do receive technicians pay. But that is not reflected in this pay bill at all.

Mr. BROYHILL. Could that be done without legislation?

Sgt. DUNPHY. Yes, sir, very much so. And that process has started already.

Mr. BROYHILL. I am not suggesting, Mr. Chairman, that we jeopardize or delay this bill to solve that particular problem. But if you are able to arrive at some decision on that matter while we are considering this bill, it would be helpful to us if we could receive this information from you, because otherwise we may consider legislation to consider that particular problem.

COMPARABLE SALARIES

Now, I notice also in your testimony, that you have a chart, chart number 4, showing the comparable salaries between the police and fire department of the District of Columbia and those of the suburbs. Of course, there is also a sheet here showing the Washington, D.C. salaries compared with those in comparable cities. But from chart number 4, it appears that the District of Columbia has a lower starting pay and maximum pay than any of the communities, or certainly most of the communities, in the suburbs. Am I reading that chart correctly? Sgt. DUNPHY. That is exactly right, sir.

Mr. BROYHILL. I think that is more illuminating than the figures on comparable cities, because goodness knows the duties and responsibilities of policemen and firemen here or in the District of Columbia are at least as great as those of policemen and firemen in the suburbs. So that very clearly shows the deficiency in the existing scale.

NO-KNOCK AND PREVENTIVE DETENTION

Next, the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Nelson, brought up a couple of questions regarding the no-knock and preventive detention, and how these provisions in the present law are working. I don't know whether Mr. Nelson is familiar with this or not, but I believe the distinguished delegate from the District of Columbia, Mr. Fauntroy, has proposed that we repeal no-knock, preventive detention, and a lot of other measures that your organization seems to feel are quite effective and in the best interest of the people of this city. Am I correct on that, Mr. Nelson, that Mr. Fauntroy has proposed that these things be repealed?

Mr. NELSON. I don't know that he proposes it, I know it is in some paper that I saw.

Mr. BROYHILL. I would like to make that inquiry of him, because I know that he does have the confidence and trust of the people of the District as well as the Congress, and I would like to know why there should be that difference of opinion as to what would be in the best interest in connection with the prevention of crime in the city.

FUNDING THE LEGISLATION

And finally, the Chairman brought up a very good point in his reference to the difficulties that we are experiencing in the budget, and how this committee seemed always to get the blame if there is any budgetary deficiency here in this city. And most certainly the police and fire departments should not be required to bear the brunt of any disagreement between this committee and the city. As he has pointed out, in answer to the Chairman's question, this bill also applies to the White House police and the Park Police, and they are not involved in the budget of the District of Columbia.

This points up, Mr. Chairman, the continuing problems that we have here in trying to separate the Federal interest from the local interest, and how much more confusing and chaotic that will be if we try to ignore those interests and just turn over the complete operation of this city to a few people who happen to live within its boundaries. I feel that certainly police and fire protection is a matter of national interest and concern, and I believe that the Congress is going to have to make certain that a proper level of proficiency is maintained in those two departments. We are all concerned about this budget problem, and have been trying to work out the proper areas of responsibility. There certainly is no lack of interest on the part of this Committee in the matter of meeting our responsibilities in helping to provide the proper level of pay for police and firemen in this city. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. CABELL. Thank you, Mr. Broyhill.

PERSONNEL QUALIFICATIONS

One quick question. Is the Chair correct that your qualifications are still that he must be age 21 before he is assigned as patrolman? Sgt. DUNPHY. No, Mr. Chairman. That has been reduced to age 20 at the present time.

Mr. CABELL. To age 20. But you still require high school or equivalent education?

Sgt. DUNPHY. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCMILLAN. I note in your

a thousand men last year?

Mr. DUNPHY. The last two years.

statement that you lost a little over

Mr. MCMILLAN. I think you will agree that when you were pushing recruitment you did get a number of men who were not police material.

Sgt. DUNPHY. Possibly so, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MCMILLAN. I heard that from other policemen.

Sgt. DUNPHY. But the point that I want to make is that these men that did leave left at their own volition and not at the request of the Department. Nevertheless, they did leave themselves.

Mr. MCMILLAN. They didn't find police work quite as fascinating

as it looked from the outside.

Sgt. DUNPHY. Exactly.

TRAFFIC CONTROL

Mr. MCMILLAN. Another question I want to ask, but which I don't think has anything to do with the pay raise, I wondered what happened to the wonderful traffic department we had here for years? It used to be that we had people on all of these street corners that could tell the tourists where to go and how to go. But now you haven't had anyone on the street for about a year, and I have had to get on the Mayor and everybody else to provide some more people on Pennsylvania Avenue and around. But I think in any city where you have maybe a half a million employees getting off at between 4 and 6 o'clock in the afternoon, that the tourist, when he comes in to town he is completely lost if he doesn't have a traffic cop or somebody to show him where to go and how to go. Are you training any good traffic people at the present time?

Sgt. DUNPHY. We certainly hope we are. Of course, the crime situation in Washington 10 years ago was no where near what it is today. Mr. MCMILLAN. Yes, sir. I have sat on Pennsylvania Avenue in one place thirty minutes, and people on both sides of me could have come over and killed me, and there were no policemen around.

Sgt. DUNPHY. I agree with you, Mr. McMillan. But they have employed that training program and have used them quite a bit in the downtown area to supplement the traffic policeman on the corner, to release him for other important police functions. And so far we believe that policemen have been working well.

Mr. MCMILLAN. I don't know what is more important than a good traffic cop in a city like Washington where we have 70 or 80 million tourists in here each year.