this problem and, in collaboration with the Board of Commissioners and the Board of Higher Education, will develop final site requirements for the facilities. The District Government does not own or control a suitable site at this time. NCPC's "1965/1985 Proposed Physical Development Policies for Washington, D.C." dated September 1965, page 51, addresses this problem and reads as follows: Each of these institutions should have its own campus, physically separated from the other, so that it can fulfill its distinct purpose. Each should occupy a prominent site, helping to create an image of quality public higher education with strong community orientation. Each should have access to rapid transit since both student bodies will commute from home rather than live on campus. Two outstanding potential locations are: A portion of the Soldiers' Home grounds between North Capitol and Harewood Road, north of Irving Street; and the Naval Receiving Station site, along the southern bank of the Anacostia River between the South Capitol Street and 11th Street Bridges.

The National Bureau of Standards on Connecticut Avenue NW., has also been mentioned as a possible construction site.

It is anticipated as you know that one of the termini of the proposed subway in the city will be at Van Ness Street which is just opposite the Bureau of Standards site.

We feel that if the Congress approves the construction of the two colleges, such approval will greatly expedite the site selection process. The administration bill recognized the imponderables and uncertainties that accompany any discussion of the actual construction of a community college and a 4-year college in the District. Consequently, the President wisely calls for the creation of a Board of Higher Education to develop detailed plans and to establish, organize, and operate in the District of Columbia a public community college and a public liberal arts college.

This Board will have as its mission the analysis and study of the many suggestions that will doubtlessly be made as to physical location and building construction design, and spatial requirements deemed necessary for the two colleges. Included in the Board's responsibilities would be a particular need for coordinating with the Board of Education all matters relating to vocational education.

After a thorough review of the proposals and suggestions, the Board will then make final construction recommendations subject, of course, to the ultimate approval of the Congress through the appropriation of funds in the normal District budgetary process.

Let me end my statement by recalling President Johnson's words in this message to Congress which accompanied this bill, and I quote: If our society is to move higher, higher education must be made a universal opportunity for all young people. The Nation's Capital should set the pace, not lag behind.

Indeed, Mr. Chairman, the favorable attention of this committee to S. 1612 will finally remove the illusory quality which has so long accompanied any discussion of higher education for young people in this city.

This bill will provide the mechanisms for the creation of a system of higher learning for the youth of the District of Columbia. The investment in these two institutions will benefit all who strive to make Washington a city of pride, advantage, and productivity.

Mr. Chairman, this is an opportunity to make a contribution that will benefit thousands of young people in this city. I hope the com

mittee and the Congress will give the District this opportunity by enacting S. 1612.

Senator MORSE. Commissioner Tobriner, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this very carefully prepared statement. It is excellent. I am not concerned about the problems that are going to have to be worked out by the usual legislative pattern of compromise. As far as the chairman is concerned he does not propose to let the objectives suffer because of any differences of opinion that may exist in regard to any proposed administrative setup.

These problems just have to be worked out in the interest of seeing to it that a higher education program is developed in the District. I am sure that will be possible. I quite agree with you that we will have to delay, until there is legislation passed, even any tentative understanding in regard to site location.

I would like to have included in the hearing record at this point a listing of possible sites for consideration. (The information requested follows:)

DEPARTMENT OF GENERAL ADMINISTRATION

ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES OFFICE

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA OWNED PROPERTIES SUFFICIENTLY LARGE TO ACCOMMODATE AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER LEARNING INCLUDING PERTINENT FACTS CONCERNING EACH OF THEM

Blue Plains, D.C.

Located at the District line and the Potomac River opposite the city of Alexandria, Va., contains 333 acres and is occupied by the District of Columbia Village and Junior Village of the Department of Public Welfare; the Fire Department Training School; the Water Pollution Control Plant of the Department of Sanitary Engineering and a site for a training facility for the Metropolitan Police Department proposed in the 1967 budget estimates. The site is bisected by the Anacostia Freeway, a portion of the Interstate Highway System which is a limited acess highway. Remaining areas not developed or committed are filled land along Oxon Run considered unsuitable for erection of building structures and an area near the Nichols Avenue border where the terrain is too steep for development.

Featherstone Farm

Located at the confluence of Neabsco Creek and the Potomac River in Fairfax County, Va., about 25 miles from the center of Washington. This tract contains approximately 350 acres of which about 250 acres is marshland. It was purchased as an emergency land fill for garbage disposal from the District of Columbia in the event of interruption to normal procedures and is still being held for that purpose. It is not served by a public road and is bisected by the main line of the R.F. & P. Railroad from Washington.

Site of the former National Training School for Girls at Muirkirk, Md.

This property which contains 143 acres is located on the old WashingtonBaltimore Pike near Beltsville, Md. It is near U.S. Route No. 1 to Baltimore and the main line of the B. & O. Railroad. The terrain is quite satisfactory having a gentle slope from west to east. It is adjacent to the U.S. Department of Agriculture Experimental Station at Beltsville. This property is not being used by the District at this time but is simply being held for such need as may arise in the general expansion of District of Columbia government activities.

Senator MORSE. There are those that are proposing, Mr. Commissioner, that maybe we ought to proceed with building a junior college and then later consider the 4-year college, which concerns me very much from many standpoints.

I would like to have your comments on some of my tentative concerns about it.

I think from the standpoint of cost, the greatest economy in the administrative setup as well as for the development of a well-balanced educational program; that we will suffer great losses if we proceed on the so-called installment plan of junior colleges first and then postpone a 4-year college until sometime later. When you have been around here as long as I have you know the strategy used if the object is to prevent a program from culminating into fruition.

I also know that if you have a sound goal it is best to proceed to adopt it in one bold stroke rather than to run the risk of dilatory tactics that flow from delay.

Do you know of any good reason why we should not come to a single judgment on the educational setup that the District of Columbia needs and proceed to implement it as a totality rather than make a step by step approach to it?

Mr. TOBRINER. Not one single reason, Mr. Chairman. It seems to me we should strike for everything we need at one time.

Senator MORSE. It seems to me if we are going to have and we should have a Board of Higher Education-then that Board can save us a lot of money. This can also be just as wasteful as the waste of money, and they can save us what would otherwise be a great deal of educational waste if they could proceed to set up a single educational system that covers all these needs; the community college need, the Vocational education need, the teacher's training need, and the 4year liberal arts course needs, rather than to set up what would be, I think, a wasteful and costly administrative setup, segment by segment over a period of years, assuming we went ahead over a period of years, to accomplish the total program. Do you agree with that? Mr. TOBRINER. I agree, sir,

Senator MORSE. As I made clear yesterday, I want to make clear this morning, that I completely agree that we must not only preserve but we must develop our teacher's training program in the District of Columbia and I contemplate it as a school or department of education within the 4-year liberal arts college.

Mr. TOBRINER. As you know, Mr. Chairman, the day of the normal school or the teachers' college is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Senator MORSE. Particularly as you point out in your statement that we wisely require a master's degree in the District of Columbia. If you are going to have a meaningful master's degree, that in turn is going to have to be educationally integrated into the curriculum of the 4-year college.

You just do not put future teachers off in the school of education and do all their training there. You have them register for a good many courses outside the college of education; in the humanities and sciences and other divisions of the liberal arts college. I think that the 4-year college is pretty vital also to the continuation of our teachers training.

Mr. TOBRINER. I think it is absolutely essential. Without it we have no possibility of continuing teachers training here. Particularly in view of the physical characteristics of the present teachers college and the fact it is possible it may lose its accreditation the next time around because of those facilities.

Senator MORSE. I am not ready to even make a tentative judgment on the next point that I raise. I am greatly impressed by what the President's Committee says about the matter and I think the presumption should favor the Committee's report until it can be overcome by adequate evidence and data to the contrary and that is the point as to the separation of administrative setup among the three possible institutions; vocational education program, a community college program-which seems to be referred to in this discussion as the junior college program-the 4-year liberal arts college program.

I think and the staff knows-that we need to bring together any additional information that is not covered in the report to the President's Committee as to the administrative setup being developed in some of the States in the country where this whole community college program is going forward in almost prairie fire speed. I think the research will show that in some areas they are combining the 4year liberal arts course with the 2-year junior college course and with the vocational education departments in one institution. I think we need to look into it from several standpoints: One, whether or not it will result in such economy to justify it money wise; two, whether or not it results in a better integrated educational program because there are transfers, so I understand, back and forth coursewise among all three educational programs and the trend seems to be to have the so-called community college in many places develop into a 4-year program.

I just do not want to dismiss summarily the possibility of such an integrated institution, but it may very well be because of special circumstances here in the District of Columbia that can be shown to exist that we should have three separate sites, but as of now the chairman would like to say, as far as he is concerned, he is openminded about the matter.

It may very well be that the stronger educational case, as far as the educational program is concerned-as possible administrative savings are concerned-would justify a central institution where we would have a common administration, where there would be an interchange of faculty on the same campus, where students, for example in a freshman class in the so-called junior college could be registered in the humanities and the social sciences as the students in the 4-year college.

I can see a whole myriad of possible interrelationships and academic interchanges that might be beneficial, both moneywise and educationalwise.

Mr. TOBRINER. A possible middle ground on those two opinions might be to locate these two colleges while they had separate facilities would be to locate them close to each other so that common facilities such as a library, such as business administration, might well be shared and the transfer of students that you speak about might be more easily effectuated; that is, the physical intercourse between the two colleges.

T

Senator MORSE. Exactly, I think there could be a whole series of interchange accommodations that could be worked out if we had them pretty much in one general location. I am not recommending it. I am just raising these problems for other witnesses to consider and for you and the Board of Commissioners to give further consideration to, as to how to proceed with the hearings on this subject.

I want you to know you filled me with great enthusiasm with the contribution you made this morning and I want to thank you very much.

Commissioner Duke, do you have a statement?

Mr. DUKE. No; I would be delighted to provide any information you might require but I do obviously support the statement made by Commissioner Tobriner.

Senator MORSE. Mr. Lowe, do you have a statement?

Mr. Lowe. Thank you, no, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. TOBRINER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator MORSE. I am very pleased to call as the next witness, because I know how important it is for him to get back to his duties, the president of George Washington University, Dr. Elliott. Dr. Elliott, this is the first time I have had the pleasure of having you before my committee and I am looking forward to having you before the Subcommittee on Education of the Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare at a later date. I want to take a second or two to welcome you before this committee, not only before this committee, but to welcome you to the great opportunity that is yours in the District of Columbia and to tell you how fortunate I think we are to have you as the new president of George Washington University. I want you to know if at any time this subcommittee or the subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare can be of any assistance to you in supplying you with any information in our files or any other service, we are at your service.

STATEMENT OF DR. LLOYD H. ELLIOTT, PRESIDENT, GEORGE

WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY, WASHINGTON, D.C.

Dr. ELLIOTT. Thank you, Senator.

Senator MORSE. We are delighted to have you testify here this morning. You may proceed in your own way.

Dr. ELLIOTT. I shall not burden you with a lengthy statement. The question of how best to expand and strengthen the program of public higher education for the District of Columbia has received the careful attention of a number of able researchers and the results are in your hands.

My own testimony, therefore, rests on the simple premise that the citizens of the District of Columbia should be given equal opportunity for public higher education to that offered the residents of the 50 States. To do less for each District citizen is to deny equal privilege, benefit, and challenge of individual development and social responsibility.

Most States now offer a wide range of such opportunity, usually at low cost, and of good quality. The well-being of the individual, and of the Nation, requires that each citizen be provided the climate for self-realization.

Education has become the path to self-respect and self-support for an increasingly large number of our people. In my opinion public higher education in the Nation's Capital lags behind that to be found in any of the 50 States.

I urge, therefore, the establishment of a 2-year public community college and a 4-year public college of arts and sciences, the latter to