one war, or whatever policy is set, whatever is given to us we come up with the force structure to fulfill that policy.

Senator DOMINICK. Who sets this policy is what I am trying to find

out.

General RYAN. I would say the civilian authorities.

Senator DOMINICK. I asked this question because in the process of our consideration of the procurement authorization bill now on the floor we took the A-7's which had been allocated to the Air Force and said, sell them to the Navy and get some more F-4's instead. And one of the discussions that occurred was the fact that if you had a given number of dollars you could then buy a given number of wings of A-7's, which would then make up the force level which the Air Force is supposed to have. It was my feeling, and I think the feeling of a lot of us, that you could do a better job with the F-4's than you could with the A-7's. This was obviously what General McConnell felt. I was just digging into the question of how you find out.

You need some wings. Who assesses that and at what time intervals? You say the civilian authorities set the policy?

General RYAN. That is correct. For each maneuver battalion that you have in the Army you need so many wings or squadrons to furnish the air support for that maneuver battalion.

Senator DOMINICK. And the civilian authorities would include intelligence and the Department of Defense and the Department of State, et cetera, is that correct?

General RYAN. I would imagine, yes, sir.

Senator DOMINICK. But you don't have personal knowledge of this? General RYAN. I do not have personal knowledge.

Senator DOMINICK. Thank you, General.

Chairman Stennis. Thank you, Senator.

Senator Inouye.

Senator INOUTE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I think we are very fortunate to have a man with such an impressive and distinguished military background.

I note, General, that half of your military life has been spent with bombers.

General RYAN. Yes, sir.

Senator INOUYE. Recently many Americans have been questioning the wisdom of maintaining such large bomber forces, in view of the ICBM's and the space age. What are your views on this? De we need bombers today?

General RYAN. I think we need bombers. I think we need both the land based and the sea based missile and a manned bomber force in order to maintain a viable deterrent. If something should happen so that your missiles are ineffective, you still have the bomber force. And I think we require it.

Senator INOUYE. Do you think the SAC should be updated?
General RYAN. Yes, sir.

Senator INOUYE. What would your recommendations be?

General RYAN. Well, as you know, we have the B-1, formerly known as the AMSA, which has been in studies for 6 or 7 years now. That is a replacement for the B-52s which we have in the SAC force now which came off the production line back in 1962-1963. It is going to take us 6 or 7 to 8 years from go-ahead to field a new bomber force.

So by that time we will have a bomber force, if we do not update it, with an aircraft of 15 to 17 years old.

Senator INOUYE. What are your views on our present fighter force? General RYAN. As the Senator knows, we have gone out with a request for proposal for the F-15, which is the air superiority fighter, which we badly need. Our F-4, which has been in the inventory for some 6 years, is a good all around workhorse. We are getting the F-111 which in my view will turn out to be a good type of aircraft for our tactical forces. The A-7 for our close air support will give us an added capability there.

We are now at a 23 wing tactical force. And with the mix that we have, and what is forecast, I think we will be able to fill our require

ments.

Senator INOUYE. In view of our present commitments, and also considering our involvement in certain hot places such as Korea and Vietnam, and potential hot places in Europe, as the Chief of the Air Force do you feel that you are adequately staffed with personnel and adequate equipment?

General RYAN. For the job that we have to do I feel we need more tactical forces. I would like to see us increase from the present four to six wings, for instance, of F-111's. As far as personnel, we are in pretty good shape at the present time.

Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much, General.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman STENNIS. Thank you, Senator.

Senator Goldwater.

Senator GOLDWATER. Senator, I have no questions. I would really like to make the comment that I think the country is very fortunate in having a man like General Ryan to step into this very important post. And I know of his long, long record of leadership. It has been very good leadership, the kind of leadership that the Air Force demands. I am very pleased that he has been chosen by the President to be the Air Force leader.

General, I wish you all the luck in the world.

General RYAN. Thank you, Senator.

Chairman STENNIS. Senator Byrd.

Senator BYRD of Virginia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

General Ryan, I congratulate you on your appointment as Chief of Staff of the Air Force. I support your nomination. Any comments I may make now will not apply to you.

I believe very strongly that this country must remain militarily strong. As an individual member of the Senate I want to do what little I can along that line. But I am very much concerned as to whether the military services are handling the tax funds which the Congress appropriates in a manner to adequately protect those funds. My impression is that the Air Force has more laxity in the handling of these funds than any of the other branches of the service.

Now, I don't know whether that lies in your field, your new field as Chief of Staff, or whether it is entirely in the civilian field of the Air Force. It seems logical that it would rest both places. I am not impressed with these open ended contracts. I am not impressed with the flexible, ambiguous way that these procurement programs have been handled. And I am not particularly impressed with information that

has been given to the committee in regard to various aircraft, which seem to be that one day or one week one aircraft is favored over another aircraft, and then subsequently the Air Force comes down and says they don't want that particular airplane, they want some other airplane.

As I say, none of this is directed at you as the new Chief of Staff. But I believe strongly that we must maintain a strong military posture. I am convinced also that the people of this country are not going to be willing to do that unless they are convinced that the military are handling the funds in a way that I think all public funds should be handled, and that is as a public trust.

So as you appear before the committee today for confirmation, I support your confirmation, but I express the hope that you as the new Chief of Staff will do whatever is appropriate within your field. You can't go over the civilian heads of your department, of course, but I hope you will do whatever is appropriate to see that these tax funds are handled as a public trust.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman STENNIS. Thank you, Senator.

General Ryan, do you have something you wish to say further, any point you want to make, sir?

General RYAN. No, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the committee. I look forward to working closely with the committee in solving some of the problems we all face.

Chairman STENNIS. Thank you, sir.

We think that you will make a very fine, outstanding chief of staff too, General McConnell.

General RYAN. I agree with the Chairman.

Chairman STENNIS. He served, I believe, 4 years, and he has been quite helpful to the committee. I think his career speaks for itself. In my judgment it is outstanding.

Now, Senator Byrd mentioned a matter that I am not going to particularly emphasize. We do the best we can, General, around this table to write up a bill, and consider the testimony before us, and everything. But then when we do write it up and send it to the floor of the Senate it is the committee's bill, and it is our responsibility. And it is up to us to handle it the best we can.

I don't think it is time then to see changes, for any of the services to see changes-I just mention this to you now for your information— unless there are some extraordinary circumstances. There are ways within the legislative channels, as you know, to have changes made. A big bill like the authorization bill, for instance, where you have $20 billion involved in many of the items in there, is hotly contested. The committee cannot go up and change its position or change its mind on the same set of facts. I just mentioned that for your information.

Does any other member of the committee have anything else to say? (No response.)

Thank you very much. We welcome you here whenever you come. We will be calling you maybe more often than you wish for us to.

(Whereupon, at 10:30 a.m., the committee proceeded into executive session.)

(The nomination of General Ryan to be Chief of Staff, U.S. Air Force, was subsequently approved by the committee in executive session and confirmed by the Senate on July 25, 1969.)