going to cut down the number of nurses who will be at home. Now you are going to discharge à lot of soldiers to go into veterans' hospitals, and you are going to increase the load on those who would like to leave home or could leave home. The Veterans' Administration is going to find it harder to get nurses. Is that not a fact? General KIRK. I presume it will, except there is one group on Civil Service; there will be available to them those women who are separated from the military service because of physical disability. Senator GURNEY. Going back to the point where you said you had already discharged 10,000 nurses General KIRK. We discharge 250 to 300 as a monthly average. It fluctuates, and as we increase our corps, that number will also increase. Senator GURNEY. We certainly are going to have nurses for the soldiers even after they are discharged? General KIRK. Yes. Senator GURNEY. Would your recommendation be that this committee consider all of the quotas needed, not only for the Army and Navy but also the veterans' hospitals, right at this time? General KIRK. I think it should, but I think you should hear General Hines as to his requirements rather than me. My job is to take care of the Army, and I am having difficulty in doing that. Senator O'MAHONEY. Is the rate of separation greater or less than expected? General KIRK. That is difficult to answer. Some of these women are separated because of physical disability. We have been accepting married women. Nurses get married after they are in service and sometimes as a result of that marriage leave we have to separate them from the service because they have dependents they have to care for who are under 14 years of age. Senator O'MAHONEY. My question was designed to find the fact as to whether or not the rate of separation was greater than anticipated by reason of the arduous nature of the duties. General KIRK. I do not know that we have any yardstick to go by. We have never had the Nurse Corps this size. In peacetime it runs from a thousand to 1,200 nurses. That has to be gained by experience; otherwise it is a guess. I saw nurses in New Guinea who had been there for 3 years. I think that is pretty long for any woman to live under those conditions, where the heat is intense and they cannot have the things they are accustomed to having, and I think we ought to bring them home before they crack up. I am sure the things that apply to soldiers-how disabilities increase according to lack of service should apply to women, but I think the women have taken it better than the men, a good deal better. Senator REVERCOMB. General, what length of time elapses under the voluntary system between the date of the application and the time the nurse is accepted into the corps; what is the usual length of time? General KIRK. Three months ago it was too long. Right now, if I had to give an estimate, I would say 10 days, except for that group of nurses where there is some question as to whether they can be certified by the Red Cross as to their qualifications as nurses. In one service command at the present time, if a nurse comes in and applies for service she is immediately sent for physical examination. The local Red Cross chapter is called and states whether or not she meets the requirements. It is not referred to the Central Red Cross in Washington. If they clear her as having met the necessary requirements and, she is found physically fit, when she returns to the office she signs on the dotted line and is then in the Army if she so qualifies. I do not say it is that good in every service command, but we have had officers from our office check every service command to see there is no backlog in any service command. They are examined and commissioned in the nine service commands and not in Washington. Senator REVERCOMB. Would you rather have nurses procured through voluntary enlistment than through the draft? General KIRK. My object is to get the nurses. Senator REVERCOMB. My first question was prompted by a letter I received under date of March 12 from a very respected and patriotic citizen of my State who is interested in this subject. He is not a doctor. I received first a wire in which he said he would like for me to ascertain why such a length of time elapsed between the date of volunteering by nurses and the time they were taken into the Nurse Corps. I asked him to give me any facts he had on which to base my inquiry, and I received this letter of March 12, Mr. Chairman, which I would like to read: My wire was prompted by the fact that six or seven nurses attached to the Blue. field Sanitarium volunteered their services when the acute need for nurses was made known. Six at the least and in most cases seven weeks elapsed before any of these nurses received word that they might apply to the Ashford General Hospital for physical examinations; one has yet to receive formal notification. While in Wheeling last week I heard of a nurse who had been attached to North Wheeling Hospital and who passed her physical in November or December but who until last week had not yet been called to duty. I do not have her name but in case you want it I can easily enough obtain it. This delay may not by the autnorities be regarded as out of the ordinary but in my humble opinion, Senator, since nurses are so badly needed there should be no delay in accepting those who volunteer. My interest in this question results from the fact that I have the highest regard for those following the nursing profession and I feel that all this advertising or propaganda about the lack of volunteers is a reflection upon the patriotism of t-hese Americans and upon their devotion to their calling. As they perform their duties at the sanitarium they are being asked by those who listen to the radio: "Why, have you not volunteered?" and when they reply: "We have volunteered but have not been called," their answer is received with an incredulous shrug of the shoulders. I call that to your attention because I am impressed with this statement, General. General KIRK. I do not question it is correct, sir; and I deplore the fact it may be. I would like very much to have the name so I can investigate and find out why. Senator REVERCOMB. I will be glad to give it to you. General KIRK. There are certain lags that happen because a nurse sometimes wants to delay her service for a period of time. On the total over-all I am sure there are errors made and some people do not get the job done promptly. Considering the size of this Army of ours, as much as it has grown, I am surprised they do as well as they do. Since the first of the year, 10,852 applications have been sent to the Army, and there are now 5,910 of those nurses on duty, physically examined and commissioned in service. There are 4,600 applications in process of clearance by the Red Cross. They have had their physical examinations and hope to be commissioned, and included in that group are those who do not want to come in immediately, but at some date they have set. Some 30 percent project their time of coming into the service up to 60 days. Senator REVERCOMB. It would seem to me, General, you would much prefer a volunteer nurse than one compelled by order to enter the service. General KIRK. That was thought about the soldiers, that a selectiveservice man would not be as good as a volunteer. Senator REVERCOMB. Do you believe that would apply to the nurses as well? General KIRK. We are all human and come from the same stock. Senator REVERCOMB. You want the nurses, whether drafted or volunteer? General KIRK. We want them to take care of the soldiers shot, sick, and wounded. Senator REVERCOMB. Would you close the door to volunteering even if the draft was passed? General KIRK. No, sir; we will take all we can by volunteering and hope no one is drafted.. Senator GURNEY. How attractive is a nursing job in the Army? Would you explain the rate of promotion and whether or not the rate in the Army Nurse Corps is as rapid as in the Navy, or if you dovetail the policy of promotion? General KIRK. I do not know what the rate of promotion in the Navy is, or the grades. We have certain T. O.'s tables of grades in all that go overseas. In other words, for the chief nurse in a hospital of a hundred or more, it is put down whether she will be a captain or a major. Senator GURNEY. Does that 18 months overseas' duty apply to nurses, where they are promoted from second lieutenant to first lieutenant? General KIRK. Yes. Senator GURNEY. It has changed things? General KIRK. Yes. That is regardless of T. O. That improved promotions in the Nurse Corps very much. I had seen very many nurses in the Southwest Pacific who had been there for 3 years and who were still second lieutenants, and I did not hestitate to try to get them promoted at once. I saw most of the hospitals there. Senator GURNEY. That is the only blanket promotion you have had in the last 3 years, is it not? General KIRK. That is correct. Senator GURNEY. Are we going along now and wait until we see a similar condition 18 or 20 months from now, or are we going to step up the rate of promotions for nurses and state how high they can expect to go in rank? General KIRK. I would like to step that up, Senator. That is done by the War Department. Senator GURNEY. Do you think there is a need for inducement to get them to volunteer? General KIRK. I do not think the question of grade has anything to do with volunteering. I do not think the average nurse understands grades in the service, and I know 80 percent of the civilian group do not. Senator GURNEY. You do not believe the fact they would be commissioned as second lieutenants and not as first lieutenants would hurt in the volunteering? General KIRK. You mean if they came in as first lieutenants instead of second lieutenants we would get more? Senator GURNEY. The nurse with 10 years' experience may be better than one who has just graduated; at least she would have some reason to feel that way. General KIRK. There are so many factors. The girl with 10 years' service is going to be better than the one with 1 year's service, and she will be picked for a leader and put on jobs she is competent to do. Senator MAYBANK. I would like to ask if you have any idea of the approximate proportion of the number of volunteers who were rejected. Of some 10,000, some 4,000 were still to go through examinations, and so on. I wonder what that proportion is. General KIRK. We have a study on that. May I read this? General KIRK. As of March 10 the Army had 915 completed applications; that is, physically fit and approved by the Red Cross, and all we needed was the nurse's signature to put her on duty. Senator MAYBANK. What I mean is how many were rejected before they reached that point; how many were eliminated because of physical or mental reasons or because of not graduating from a recognized hospital or because of age? General KIRK. I have the figures here, sir. We get actually to duty about 58 percent of those who apply. Five percent are disqualified professionally; 20 percent are physically disqualified; 17 percent fail to accept the appointment after they have met all of the requirements and have put in their application. That is our experience up until now. Senator MAYBANK. Seventeen percent failed to accept? General KIRK. Before the President's message, those who failed to accept their commission when it was tendered was 7 percent; now it is 17. Senator MAYBANK. How do you account for that, General? Senator MAYBANK. I can understand that, that is common sense, but I wonder what caused her to change her mind. Would it be perhaps she might get a better job or because she had been promoted in the local hospital? General KIRK. I would be going into theory on that, sir. Senator MAYBANK. It seems to me a large proportion of people who take examinations to have 17 percent fail to take commissions. You say 17 percent of them did not? General KIRK. That is right. That is one trouble with voluntary recruitment. Senator REVERCOMB. Let me ask you this question, sir: The bill, as you advocate it, applies only to the group of registered nurses? General KIRK. Yes, sir. Senator REVERCOMB. Was there any provision for one usually classed as a practical nurse? General KIRK. We are using nurses' aides. Senator REVERCOMB. Sir? General KIRK. We are using people as nurse aides on a civilian status to supplement our nursing service. Senator REVERCOMB. Is that the practical nurse, one who has had practical experience for going into your work? General KIRK. If she will come in as nurse's aide, we have general authority to hire under civil service if she will accept the pay, which amounts to $1,450 or $1,570 a year. It amounts to about $75 a month after she gets her board and lodging. Senator REVERCOMB. Do you furnish the board and lodging for that employee? General KIRK. Yes. Senator REVERCOMв. Do you have any of those people in hospitals abroad? General KIRK. Only at home. Senator REVERCOMB. Only in this country? General KIRK. Except they are in the Philippines now. They are getting what nurses they can that are graduate nurses in the Philippines and are training Filipino girls as nurse aides there. That is going on there to take care of the civilian group who will have to be taken care of. It is in the lap of the Army and the Navy now. Senator REVERCOMB. For information, I ask you could not the socalled practical nurse serve a good purpose in a hospital abroad; would they be helpful? General KIRK. I think we can use all we have here, sir. It would complicate things overseas. Senator REVERCOMB. What would the complications be? General KIRK. We could better get along without nurses here and give them to the people over there. Senator REVERCOMB. Is the complication between the registered nurse and the practical nurse? General KIRK. No; it is an administrative problem and has nothing to do with that. Senator REVERCOMB. How is that? General KIRK. It is an administrative problem and not a question of conflict, as I see it, between the registered nurse and the practical nurse. Senator O'MAHONEY. General, do you have a statement showing the number of nurses in each separate grade? General KIRK. No, sir, I do not. Maybe I can get it. Senator O'MAHONEY. I wonder if you could do that, please, and then have a table made up showing the comparison between the compensation of the nurses in the Army with the compensation of the nurses in the Veterans' Administration. (The information requested was subsequently furnished in a letter, as follows:) WAR DEPARTMENT, SERVICES OF SUPPLY, Hon. ELBERT D. THOMAS, Chairman, Committee on Military Affairs, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. DEAR SENATOR THOMAS: At the hearing before your committee on March 19, request was made that we furnish you with a statement of the number of nurses in each grade in the Army Nurse Corps, and a comparison between the compensation paid to nurses in the Army and those in the Veterans' Administration. |