At least they required, according to his researches, work from those who could be reached. I take it there were a lot of people who couldn't be reached, however.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions?

Senator BURTON. Mr. Johnston, we have been considering the legislation as it is now before the Congress. Have you any suggestions for other legislation that might be appropriate for our consideration, either as an alternative to this legislation or in addition to it?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Yes, sir. As president of the United States Chamber of Commerce I can assure you that our organization has felt for some time that there should be legislation enacted to give authority to the War Manpower Commission to carry out many of its directives which are now purely on a voluntary basis. I am sure that if this legislation were given to the War Manpower Commission they could correct most of the evils that are now discussed and which you hope to correct by means of this bill.

Senator CHANDLER. And that might obviate the necessity of having

this bill?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Except from the morale side, which I mentioned. The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. Johnston, you are also serving as an adviser in the War Manpower Commission?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. So that you are on the committee there?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that Commission or advisory committee united. in the idea that the War Manpower Commission should have statutory authority?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Yes; I believe they are united, agriculture, labor, and management in the idea that some statutory authority should be given.

The CHAIRMAN. All groups on that committee have felt, as has already been testified to here by some of them, that over the period of time of its operations, the Commission has done an extremely good job?

Mr. JOHNSTON. I think so, Senator. I know that it has received a good deal of criticism and it has made a great many, many mistakes, but in general I think it has done a good job.

The CHAIRMAN. It if is given statutory authority, that authority will not have to be generally used; that is, universally used, any more than we are expecting that if this bill before us becomes law, that it will be universally used?

Mr. JOHNSTON. I do not think so, Senator; I don't think it will have to be generally used.

The CHAIRMAN. Its enforcement will be spotty?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Quite.

The CHAIRMAN. And would be restricted almost entirely to the purely war industries?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Right.

The CHAIRMAN. And it would be almost so spotty that its effect would be practically local in the enforcement or moving of manpower around, wouldn't it?

Mr. JOHNSTON. I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. And you believe you can obtain, under that arrangement, all of the objectives excepting the moral one and except

68966-45- -17

MOBILIZATION OF CIVILIAN MANPOWER

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 1945

UNITED STATES SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met, pursuant to recess, at 10:30 a. m., in the committee room of the Committee on Military Affairs, United States Capitol, Senator Elbert D. Thomas (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Thomas of Utah (chairman), Kilgore, Maybank, Austin, Gurney, and Burton.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order.

Mr. Gardner, please give your name and position for the record, and then proceed in your own way to make such statement as you desire.

STATEMENT OF O. MAX GARDNER, CHAIRMAN, ADVISORY BOARD ON WAR MOBILIZATION AND RECONVERSION

Mr. GARDNER. O. Max Gardner. I am Chairman of the Advisory Board on War Mobilization and Reconversion. I am 1 of 12 members of that Board. The other members, for the record, it might be well to name. They are Mr. William H. Davis, Chairman, War Labor Board; Mrs. Anna M. Rosenberg, regional director, War Manpower Commission, New York City; William L. Green, president, American Federation of Labor; Philip Murray, president of the C. I. O.; T. C. Cashen, of the Railroad Brotherhoods; Edward A. O'Neal, president of the American Farm Bureau Federation; James G. Patton, president of the National Farmers Union; Albert S. Goss, master of the National Grange; Eric A. Johnston, president of the United States Chamber of Commerce; George H. Mead, chairman of the Board of the Mead Corporation; and Nathaniel Dyke, Jr., special consultant, Smaller War Plants Corporation.

I am here, Mr. Chairman, in deference to your invitation, and with high respect for your office.

This is the first time that I have ever appeared before a committee of Congress in any capacity, and may I say in this connection that my public life has been entirely devoted to State government, in legislative and executive responsibilities. I have been a member of the State Senate of North Carolina, president pro tem of the Senate, Lieutenant Governor, and Governor.

I am a lawyer by profession, a business executive, president of the Cleveland Cloth Mills, and a director in a considerable number of private corporations, and also director of my farm operations in North Carolina.

I say this, Mr. Chairman, by way of introduction. I am sure my invitation to be here today is entitely due to the fact that I am Chairman of the Advisory Board on War Mobilization and Reconversion. This is my first Federal office. I accepted the chairmanship as a public member because I considered it a public duty.

I wish to make this statement for the record. The Advisory Board to the Director of War Mobilization and Reconversion was appointed by the President under section 102 of the War Mobilization and Reconversion Act of 1944. This section reads:

(a) There is hereby created an advisory board, which shall consist of twelve members who shall be appointed by the President by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. All of the members of the Board shall represent the general public and the public interest, but in order that the Board may have the benefit of experience in the matters with which it will deal under this Act, three members of the Board shall have had experience in business management, three members shall have had experience in matters relating to labor, and three members shall have had experience in agriculture. The President shall designate one of the remaining three members as chairman of the Board.

I am, as I state, a public member, and was appointed chairman of the Board.

(b) It shall be the general function of the Board to advise with the Director with respect to war mobilization and reconversion and make to him such recommendations relating to legislation, policies, and procedures as it may deem necessary.

That is the section of the act creating the power and the Board. The Board was created for the purpose of helping the Director of War Mobilization and Reconversion by advising with him and making recommendations to him concerning the performance by him of his many and important duties under the War Mobilization and Reconversion Act of 1944. The Board feels that in the performance of its duty under the law that it should make its recommendations in writing to the Director, and this policy has been observed.

There are a number of facts that I would like to make clear to the committee:

First, I am not here at the request of the Director, and I do not purport to speak for his office, but I desire to support the recommendation of the Director in this legislation.

Second, I am not here to speak for the individual members of the Board as to their present personal views, for the reason that their views have not been expressed to me officially beyond the expressions contained in a resolution passed January 10, 1945, hereinafter referred to.

Third, I am not here to speak for myself in any personal or professional capacity. I am here as Chairman of the Advisory Board.

As Chairman of the Advisory Board I do report to you that on January 10, 1945, after full discussion, with all members present except two, namely, Messrs. Murray and Cashen, there was passed the following resolution of advice to the Director, with all members participating and present voting in the affirmative. The resolution reads as follows:

Resolved, That the Board advises the Director that it favors the principle that persons not drafted but subject to draft are under obligation to serve in the civilian forces wherever their services are most needed, but it feels that any act of Congress embodying that principle shall contain adequate safeguards to assure the placement of all civilian workers in the hands of the War Manpower Commission and the War Food Administration and their duly constituted labor, agriculture,

management committees, and that the selective-service boards should determine only whether the individual is to be inducted into the military service.

There have been two meetings of the Board since the passage of the above resolution, and this proposed legislation has been discussed, but no formal action has been taken by the Board to amend or change the terms of the above recommendation to Director Byrnes.

That, Mr. Chairman, constitutes the proceedings of the Board as recorded on the official minutes of the Board. As I state, we have had two meetings since the 10th of January, as I recall it, and of course. this matter, as many other matters relating to war mobilization and reconversion, has been discussed; and while the members of this Board, under the act, are public members, and it is so stated in the act, it is very true that they do represent segments of our people in businesses that are vitally concerned in this legislation.

I thought it was right interesting that, on this one particular issue, there should have been an apparent meeting of minds at the time of the matter then pending, the matter then pending being the May-Bailey bill.

As you gentlemen know, on most of these advisory boards, the tripartite boards, where labor and industry and business are represented, their decisions are frequently split. Of course, that will undoubtedly occur on this advisory board. But I think the members of this Board do recognize that they are all public members, and I would say in their behalf that the matters that have been discussed by the Board up to this time have indicated a broad, general interest in the whole country, rather than in the special groups from which these men have been selected.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. GARDNER. We are charged now, as we understand it, to advise with the Director and to make to him such recommendations as we deem necessary affecting leglslation, policies, and procedures under the War Mobilization and Reconversion Act. We do not think it our duty to make recommendations to Congress, or to the press. I will state, however, that I am going to give this statement to the press unless there is objection from this committee, because there have been numerous comments made about the resolution that we passed, and it has been publicized once or twice, not completely but in part.

The CHAIRMAN. Governor, I think that if you give it to the press with a statement that it came from the committee, it will make your statement consistent with all the others that have gone out.

(Discussion off the record.)

Senator MAYBANK. In your judgment, does this amended May bill carry out the points specified in the resolution that was agreed upon by all present on January 10 of your Board?

Mr. GARDNER. I would have to say this, Senator: Of course, the present bill was not in existence at the time we passed this resolution. But I think the very language of the resolution, where it says that adequate protection should be given or adequate precaution be taken, contemplated probably the very provisions substantially as they are in the Senate bill with respect to the discretion being lodged in the Director with respect to allocation and placement.

Now I don't know, I don't pretend to say that each menmber of the Board would have voted as I now indicate, because since that time