character comparable to the hardship that might result through our failure to produce materials of war for the fighting fronts. We will to the maximum extent possible work out arrangements with employers affected by the program to assure those workers whose release is required the protection of seniority, reemployment, or other rights. 4. We will refer workers made available from less essential activities by the program only to job openings in urgent war production in establishments which are now and will continue making the most effective utilization possible of their currently employed work force. Establishments which reject without good cause workers referred to them under this program will not be permitted further referrals. 5. We will require, and take every lawful measure to secure, prompt and complete compliance with our determinations under this program. The combined enforcement powers of the War Manpower Commission and all other governmental agencies will be brought to bear on noncomplying establishments. Senator AUSTIN. I am testing the way it is worked. You will find out from your associate here whether this is correct; namely, that the immediate manpower requirement in this area is 2,400, of which 1,000 are needed now in plants engaged in must production which is behind schedule. And the second point, as of February 3, the War Manpower Commission reported that 281 workers under the program have been referred to war jobs and that 107 of these have actually taken war jobs. I would like to check on those. Mr. McNUTT. I have the check here as of 1 o'clock this afternoon, a report from Mr. Lawlor of the Philadelphia office. Senator AUSTIN. That is better yet. Mr. McNUTT. Here are the figures [reading]: Placements made under the ceiling program put into effect in the Allen- Referrals made during that same period (Jan. 24 to and including Feb. 6) Total placements since notice of the program came out and pro- The CHAIRMAN. Anything else? 708 Senator MAYBANK. I would like to ask the Governor one more question. In addition to all these men needed, I would like to ask if he thinks this bill will assist greatly in reducing the turn-over in plants? Mr. McNUTT. The turn-over went to its lowest figure in November-6 percent. Some plants were out of line but that was the national turn-over rate. Compared to Britain's rate, under one of the toughest laws I have ever looked at, it is a very good record. Senator MAYBANK. You think this will help that? Mr. McNUTT. It will help, no doubt. Senator MAYBANK. If the European war got over, do you think many of them would go back home to farm or go back nearer home to carry on local occupations? Mr. McNUTT. It would be perfectly natural, despite the fact that I do not see that the demand will drop immediately after the war is over in the European theater. Furthermore, and this is anybody's guess, the European war could end by capitulation or by surrender of divisions or by guerrilla warfare. Thinking out loud, it has seemed to me the obvious answer as of today would be the third, guerilla warfare. Senator MAYBANK. But not the Orient? Mr. McNUTT. No. Senator O'MAHONEY. But that will change the requirements. Senator O'MAHONEY. If I may be permitted to say so, I would say your statement was briefly this way: That in your judgment the present program has not been a failure? Mr. McNUTT. That is right. Senator O'MAHONEY. That the manpower situation as of the 1st of January was the best it has ever been? Mr. McNUTT. That is right. Senator O'MAHONEY. That you support this bill because of the uncertainties of the future, because you don't want to be in the position of having objected to legislation of this kind if the events. should turn out to make it seem that it was necessary? Mr. McNUTT. Yes, sir. Senator O'MAHONEY. You have testified that the voluntary system has functioned well? Mr. McNUTT. Yes. Senator KILGORE. You stated a little while ago that Allentown ha 1 very good press relations. In other words, they whipped up cooperative spirit in that community, so that there was a public sentiment in favor of every act that took place? Mr. McNUTT. That is right. Senator KILGORE. Let's say we did put this in legislative enactment, in areas in which that public sentiment does not exist, what is going to happen to the problem there? I want to take this illustration as given to me by the Navy Department. We asked reasons for turnover in the Norfolk Navy Yard and they cited dissatisfaction by workers, and they would even go so far as to pick a fight with an immediate supervisor in order to get fired. Say a worker is referred to a plant under this legislation, doesn't want to work; he goes ahead and accepts his referral and he goes into the plant; he doesn't have a fight; he just simply doesn't produce satisfactorily, feeling that his rights have been taken away from him. What can be done in a case of that kind? Mr. McNUTT. It would depend upon the regulations that would be issued. Senator KILGORE. There is no provision that he can be punished for that as long as he goes ahead and reports. We have had such things as sit-down strikes in the United States. Mr. McNUTT. I know that. 68966-45 Senator KILGORE. In a big plant it is very hard for supervision to keep all the men working. The question in my mind is with an unwilling working group and noncooperative, what does this bill offer to us by way of a solution? Mr. McNUTT. I don't suppose any bill or any piece of legislation can build public morale. We must depend upon the demands of the occasion, the patriotism of the persons involved. Senator KILGORE. In other words, the psychology of the situation is the governing factor, isn't it? Mr. McNUTT. Well, it is a factor. Senator KILGORE. Off the record. (Discussion held off the record.) The CHAIRMAN. This has been a very successful day, Mr. McNutt. We thank you for coming. We will adjourn now until tormorrow morning at 10 o'clock. (Whereupon the committee adjourned at 4:45 p. m. to reconvene Thursday, February 8, 1945, at 10 a. m.) MOBILIZATION OF CIVILIAN MANPOWER THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 1945 [EXECUTIVE SESSION] UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AFFAIRS, Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10:30 a. m., in the committee room of the Committee on Military Affairs, United States Capitol, Senator Elbert D. Thomas (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Thomas, Chandler, Kilgore, O'Mahoney, Maybank, Austin, Revercomb, Burton, Bridges, Gurney, and Hill. Also present: Senator Albert W. Hawkes. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. I will ask the reporter to insert in the record at this point a communication from Senator Morse and also a communication to Senator Johnson from a group of marines. (The documents referred to are as follows:) Hon. ELBERT D. THOMAS, UNITED STATES SENATE, February 6, 1945. United States Senate, Washington, D. C. DEAR SENATOR: I shall appreciate it very much if you will insert in the record, which the Military Affairs Committee is making on the so-called work-or-fight bill, the following excerpt from a telegram which I received from Mr. Ralph J. Calhoun, business agent of the boilermakers union, Portland, Oreg.: "As Representative of the people of Oregon and these United States it is your duty to protect the sovereign rights of the people of your State. We inform you of a condition that exists in our State that is proving very dangerous and detrimental to your constituents; viz, while Congress is trying to foist a work-or-fight bill on the people our employers in this area are laying off men at the rate of thousands, not hundreds, and are using the manpower office to cover the lack of work in this area by issuing asinine excuses." I also wish to call your attention to the answer which I sent in answer to Mr. Calhoun's wire, a copy of which is enclosed. Sincerely yours, RALPH F. CAlhoun, [Copy of Western Union telegram] WAYNE MORSE. FEBRUARY 3, 1945. Business Agent, Boilermakers, Local 27, Portland, Oreg.: I am filing appropriate excerpts of your wire with chairman of Military Affairs Committee which is considering manpower bill. Please send me air mail any specific evidence or data which can be used by committee in support of your statement that thousands of men are being laid off by employers in Oregon. WAYNE MORSE, war, but if there are any good things that come out of war this is one of them. Senator O'MAHONEY. In other words, you think this is good for future operations of cooperation between management and labor to get the job done? Mr. McNUTT. Yes, and I have already talked to the committee at the national level with that in view, thinking that they might want a set-up permanently where they can work together. Here are the tops of all the organizations. It would be a fine thing in the post-war period if they could sit down at the table and resolve their difficulties without getting into trouble. Senator O'MAHONEY. Much has been said during these hearings about the alleged flexibility of this bill, which starts out, by the way, with a freeze. It suggests to my mind a question, and that is whether this system you have just described does not offer us the degree of flexibility that we need rather than the proposal which would introduce a degree of rigidity. Mr. McNUTT. The last experience would so indicate, but I still get back to the point, with the war as it is today, I will join with the others in saying that I am unwilling to take a chance. Senator KILGORE. If Congress were to pass the necessary law for the War Manpower Commission, as it is, to intervene and establish ceilings, including Government installations themselves, and Selective Service to operate at full extent from 18 to 45, wouldn't that constitute a much more flexible method than the problem of going through the district courts, circuit courts, and finally to the Supreme Court on constitutionality on enforcement by fines and jail sentences? Mr. McNUTT. It might, but once again, to be realistic, the Senate has before it a House bill which was passed by the House, and there has been a demand for speedy action on the part of the Army and Navy and Commander in Chief. Senator KILGORE. That bill has to be amended, which means it has to go back to the House for action. Mr. McNUTT. There are certain amendments that I have supported as vigorously as I know how. Senator AUSTIN. I would like to ask some questions specifically regarding the experiment at Allentown, Pa. Mr. McNUTT. Senator, actually it was not an experiment. Mr. McNUTT. If you will give me a moment I can check that. It has about that. Of those, 57,000 are in munitions. Estimated employment in less essential industries is 27,000. Senator AUSTIN. Then, the immediate manpower requirements in this area are 2,400, is it not? I think these figures came from you. Mr. McNUTT. They have met their immediate requirement up there. Senator AUSTIN. That is what I am trying to test out. The Allentown program has been in effect for about 4 weeks, hasn't it? Mr. McNUTT. May I go back and give you the history? All that Allentown did was to take the program that we had for the Nation and get into it a little bit earlier than anybody else and to move very rapidly with it and to get proper distribution of the news all over the country. What Allentown has done was to take this five-point program which we followed. I will read it: |