Senator MURKOWSKI. No. There is a highway, though, with traffic.

Dr. OTT. Right.

Senator MURKOWSKI. And we know what they do with the transAlaska pipeline, the Central Arctic Herd, they walk under it, they walk over it, they are on the road. Right?

Dr. OTT. That is correct.

Senator MURKOWSKI. So what is the grave doubt then, if they cross the Dempster Highway, the Porcupine Caribou Herd, and if the Central Arctic Herd wanders all over the pipeline, over and under it, that the Porcupine Herd will not walk under or over a pipeline, if it is ever built?

Dr. OTT. We have no way of predicting, and I will say it again, what 80,000 animals will do in one group moving along the coast, if they encounter the types of development activities and facilities that you see in the Prudhoe Bay-Kuparuk.

We are not talking about

Senator MURKOWSKI. This brings me to my point. You are talking about taking 240,000 and some odd acres, and studying them for 7 years.

Now, if you are going to study them, what are you going to do to satisfy yourself that they will cross over, they will not cross over? Do you propose a specific creation of a facsimile?

Dr. OTT. I think we kind of skipped a step there. First, I thought you were, we went back to the core calving area, indeed, with respect to trying to get animals across the facilities.

In the State's position, we have already acknowledged that that has to be done. And the mitigation is going to have to be developed. Senator MURKOWSKI. Excuse me, I was distracted. I would appreciate if you would go back and make your point again.

Dr. OTT. In terms of designing in to whatever, ultimately whatever decision is made, and if indeed there is development in the 1002 area, we have already made the commitment that we are going to have to figure out how to pass that large group of animals. Because the State's position is not one, we are supporting leasing of the majority of the area, with the exception of the core calving area. And those animal movements, a lot of those occur along the coast, which are areas that potentially could be developed.

All I was doing was pointing out that there are differences between the two herds in terms of size, in terms of the areas that they use, in terms of the alternative habitats that they may have available.

Senator MURKOWSKI. I guess to get back to the question of the calving area, how do you propose to study this to make a determination whether the female caribou will be displaced by studying for 7 years an area of 243,000 acres?

Dr. OTT. We already know that they will be displaced as a result of the activities.

Senator MURKOWSKI. How do you know that?

Dr. OTT. We know that based on the data that has been obtained in the Prudhoe Bay area.

Senator MURKOWSKI. Do you know, for example, what, on the 243,000 acres, if you laid it out in sections, how many caribou have

calved on one section vis-a-vis another section, vis-a-vis outside the 243,000 acres?

Do you have some historical evidence to know what occurred there over the last 6, 7, or 8 years on individual areas, that the next year they might not wander over to another area?

I mean, you have got a large, large area there. And to withhold for 7 years to study it would seem to mandate that you almost had to set up some facsimiles.

What I am trying to get at, is this part of the plan, to put up some pipeline for a ways, an oil rig, something that would depict what would occur in the leased areas, so we can see if indeed this is going to be a factor in the caribou not going in there?

Dr. ŎTT. The actual details of the research program, our cooperative effort between the Department and the Fish and Wildlife Service, in those details I really do not know.

Senator MURKOWSKI. Well, we are going to ask the State in the record to provide us with some of the more detailed information of how they propose to go about this study, because it is important as we consider leasing if we are going to leave an area out for good reason, why then that affects consideration of what is the potential value of that are from the standpoint of competitive bidding.

I do not know, but it evidently seems to be attractive to some, to have some detail as to how you propose the study. And if you are going to use a facsimile, is not Prudhoe Bay a facsimile, and will that be a consideration as well?

Another question, there was a study that was presented before the committee, Dr. Bergerub, I believe, is close reference to the pronunciation. He was a biologist, eminent in caribou, I think, with the University of Victoria. I think he has studied them some 22 years.

His assessment seems to substantially contrast from the State's general position, and I assume you have had an opportunity to examine that particular paper that he has done.

Dr. OTT. I have not specifically done that. No, sir.

Senator MURKOWSKI. We would be happy to provide it, if you do not have access to it, because it was rather revealing, suggesting indeed that the caribou was very easily displaced to just move over to whatever was around that it did not like, and if there was a predator around, why then that was obviously a very real threat. But that the reason the progress of the caribou in their migration was not that all the caribou stayed together, but the males stayed closer to the foothills where the feed was, but that was where the predators were, and the reason the females went out on the Coastal Plain was to calve in an area where there virtually are no predators.

We would appreciate an evaluation of that study, because it is used to basically indicate that the caribou are very easily displaced. Dr. OTT. Could I have the specific reference to the study you are referring to?

it.

Senator MURKOWSKI. Tom will give you the study. We have got

I have got several other questions for the witnesses, Mr. Chairman. But I think in the interests of time, and they have been very patient, I think I will submit them.

I want to thank you, gentlemen, and the Environmental Protection Agency, for your detailed written testimony, and our assurance that, despite some of the lead time that was outlined today, I think my colleagues, for the most part, are anxious to proceed in addressing this issue as far as the role of this committee. And your contribution is most significant.

And I am deeply grateful for those of you who came down from Alaska. I too came down from Alaska and walked right into this hearing.

Senator MCCLURE. Thank you very much, Senator. The committee will meet again tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. The committee now stands adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 12:52 p.m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene Wednesday, October 14, 1987.]

ARCTIC COASTAL PLAIN PUBLIC LANDS

LEASING ACT OF 1987

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 14, 1987

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES,

Washington, DC.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:45 a.m., in room SD366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. J. Bennett Johnston, chairman, presiding.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. J. BENNETT JOHNSTON, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA

The CHAIRMAN. Good morning. This morning we continue our hearing on S. 1217, a bill to authorize oil and gas leasing production and development in the Coastal Plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

We begin this morning with a panel composed of Thomas Cook, Exploration Representative from Alaska Chevron, U.S.A., Roger Herrera, Manager of Exploration and Lands from Standard, James D. Weeks, Manager of the Prudhoe Bay Field Operations with Arco, and Raymond L. LaGarde, Director of Industry and Regulatory Affairs with Conoco.

Gentlemen, welcome. If the panel will please come forward. I understand Senator Nickles has an opening statement.

STATEMENT OF HON. DON NICKLES, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

Senator NICKLES. Thank you very much. I apologize, I missed the hearing yesterday. I was out of town, and it was impossible to be here.

But I want to thank you and commend you for having this hearing and the several other hearings that we have had on the ANWR issue. I think it is most important that we move forward as quickly as possible.

I think it would be a tragic mistake for this country, for our national security, and for energy security, for us not to move forward in development and production in the ANWR area.

As the Chairman is well aware, I had the pleasure of accompanying him and other Members of the Committee to the ANWR area and to the Prudhoe Bay area. It reconfirmed my thoughts that it would be a tragic mistake for us not to move forward as quickly as possible.