Seawalls and groins or jetties are the immediate hope both physically and psychologically. These are needed now, before the next beach season.

Then there should follow an all-seashore highway, State and Federal. This would encourage protection of the outer banks. This would also attract millions to the Atlantic shores just as the Skyline Drive has lured millions to the mountains.

Some said Edison was crazy. Behold, he has risen to eminence second only to "King Sol"-the sun. Our Government of the people has helped present Edison to millions of rural homes in America. Some said the Inland Waterway from Maine to Florida was a piper's dream. Alas, a dream come true.

So, amid jeers and laughter, we humbly submit that a combination seawall and all-seashore highway, wide enough for four or more cars abreast, deep enough not to be undermined, sufficient to stabilize all of the Atlantic's inlets, and engineered to last for centuries, while serving as a limited-access road and a great seawall, affording cross or maximum protection to the entire Atlantic coast, if built would prove both feasible and economically sound, as well as an immediate cure for 10 million jitters, and would furnish employment to many who now greatly need to work.

Such a wall road would cost less than the hurricane damages resulting within a period of 12 months because of the absence of it. We concur with the Hoover Commission in those matters of Government policy that are actually detrimental to the well-being of the people of the United States, but humbly implore you to not delete from our Government those things, such as the Army Corps of Engineers, in their civil capacities, unless and until a better substitute has been found. We beg you not to reduce the efforts of this Nation to make the highest and best use of the water resources of this Nation, consistent with the constitutional rights of the people who support all phases of Government. That which we can much better accomplish unitedly, let us keep under Federal control, so long as we reserve the right to dispense with it when the people so desire.

Aid in times of national disaster can best be directed by well staffed, well trained, well intended people who have been placed in authority. We should all stand ready to support and defend such authority, for therein lies the security of our Nation, the people of the United States.

Mr. JONES. Thank you very much, Mr. Tucker. That is a very splendid statement.

Do you have any questions, Mr. Lipscomb?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. No questions.

Mr. JONES. Thank you very much.

Our next witness will be Mr. Joseph Whitman of Topsail Beach. How are you, Mr. Whitman?

STATEMENT OF JOSEPH WHITMAN, APPEARING FOR NEW
TOPSAIL BEACH, N. C.

Mr. WHITMAN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, after having some of the remarks here this morning I feel more or less like an intruder. It was the general impression of our folks at New Topsail Beach that this phase of the hearing would deal with the financial aspects of

recovery along our beach resorts. I am here specifically to represent the property owners of New Topsail Beach, which is located at the southern extremity of Topsail Island. About half of Topsail Island is a part of Pender County and, in order to give you the basis for which we ask help, we feel it is necessary to get into some of what you might say are the historical phases of that island.

Prior to World War II, Topsail Island was practically a wasteland. The county derived little, if any, tax money from the area. At the beginning of our preparedness period for World War II, of course, we all know that Camp Davis was established at Holly Ridge, just about 3 miles from the inland waterway. A highway was built down to the waterway and the Navy went in and established a rocket proving ground all the way down the island. They established observation towers and quarters for their personnel.

Of course, during that period the county could not expect any return on the property.

When the island property was returned to the owners, it was found that that island was not only suitable for defense purposes, but that it made one of the finest resort areas that could be found along the North Carolina coast.

Surf City was the first settlement established. The primary buildings were left there vacant by the Navy Department. The developers from other parts of the country came into the island, and one of the best developments there was established in 1950 at New Topsail Beach. It was remarkable from the standpoint of growth how a community like that could develop. It was established primarily as a community of homes. The lots were sold off not for speculation, but for the building of a home. The property owners even went to the extent of building their own beach. The beach is owned by the propertyowners. Of course, with the settlement of 500 houses we needed business establishments.

In order to give you an inkling of what happened down there and that is the only thing we can do since there is no way of describing what happened on that island unless you could have been there the day before Hurricane Hazel hit and the day after it hit-New Topsail Beach is about 2 miles long and about 4 blocks wide. We have the ocean on the east and the channel on the west. It was just ideal for every kind of seagoing and landgoing recreation. As a matter of fact, I had a home there and spent as much time in the winter as I did in the summer.

This beach is located about half-way down the development. I was not there at the time of the hurricane, but I went down the Sunday after. I am told by some of the people who had gotten there on Friday evening and early Saturday morning what had happened. I could visualize certain types of homes being battered by the winds and some of them battered by waves. When I landed there I could not believe what I was seeing. We had sand dunes 18 and 20 feet high on the ocean side. My cottage was located on the sound. That Sunday I stood at high tide with my feet at the edge of the water on the sound side and looked four blocks away into the surf of the ocean. It was as level as a billiard table, with every house wiped off the map. One man even came up to me and asked me if I could go down and show him where his lot was. The streets were paved before. Some of the pavement was broken up and covered with 4 and 5 feet of sand

in heaps. From Surf City on down there were 37 cottages that lay out there on the marshland on the other side of Banks Channel, and the inland waterway was in all phases of dilapidation. The force of the wind and the waves cannot be estimated except by personal experience.

I had a cottage, piers, a boathouse and gatehouse. My entire property was surrounded by a wall. Now it is perfectly flat. I had a boat in the boathouse. We found that boat last April a quarter of a mile inland-what was left of the boat, that is.

The people, of course, were warned, because this was a big storm. The property owners came down wondering whether they were going to collect any insurance whatever because all of the policies had that little clause at the bottom, "This policy is not effective against tidal damage." It is a question of what causes tidal damage. Of course, they were wind-damage policies. A great deal of the damage, and Í would say 75 percent of the damage, done on Topsail Island, was due to the fact that after the waves broke down the sand dunes they undermined the frame cottages on the ocean side and they floated in 8 to 10 feet of water and were driven by winds estimated around 120 miles an hour. You can imagine the similar effect of a bunch of bulldozers running across that water and hitting into the cottages.

The people down there had a meeting of property owners and wanted to show that they themselves were trying to do something. They took a voluntary assessment against the property to establish a fund whereby they could go to work and do something in anticipation of getting Federal funds to augment that. That Sunday after the storm, when we had the property owners' meeting, we collected some $6,000. Monday morning we started to use that money-not in trying to reestablish private property or to reestablish general public works, but to build up some sort of protection on the ocean side, so that in case of another storm it might not add to the damage already done. Civil-defense funds came in, which were entirely inadequate. Pender County was allocated the sum of around $33,000, which was specifically allotted for the purpose of temporary and emergency use. That consisted of getting some bulldozers down there and pushing up about 4 feet of sand off the beach to form a miniature sand dune.

The tides we had been having down there were higher than anything they could establish. The result is that the first heavy wind and the next so-called hurricane just flattened those things out.

Our people of New Topsail Beach are not asking for anything that they feel is unreasonable. We know that Federal funds can only be used for certain purposes. We do feel, though, that whatever Federal money is spent, regardless of what the purpose is, it should in itself be utilized for something which would be more or less permanent. The emergency spending of money is just more money going down the drain, the way we feel about it.

That fund which was established there for pushing up a 4-foot-high sand dune was well spent. There is no question about it. As far as it went it was well spent, but in itself it only took one reasonably high tide and a fairly strong wind combined with it to eliminate every bit of the work that had been done and the money was thrown away.

The reason why I said in the beginning I felt as though I was intruding was the fact that we were given to understand that this committee was going to hear testimony in regard to the advancement of

Federal funds. I do feel that you do have a sympathetic ear. If there is anything you gentlemen of this committee can do by way of using your influence to get the funds needed in Pender County, I just cannot tell you how greatly that would be appreciated—not from our own community, but from the county as a whole.

In the county, as I stated before, they received little, if any, tax money, before those beaches were established. They have been getting around $50,000 a year of tax money out of that, which is a great sum of money for Pender County. However, until something can be done in the way of permanent protection and those communities can be rebuilt, the county is still going to be deprived of that money which they need very badly.

Mr. JONES. Thank you very much, Mr. Whitman. We are glad to have had you.

I want to tell you this: I serve on the Committee on Public Works, the Flood Control Subcommittee, and when I go back to Washington if I do not come forward then I know Congressman Carlyle, Congressman Durham, and Congressman Cooley, and the rest of the North Carolina delegation, will give me a thorough whipping if I do not do something about it.

Mr. WHITMAN. I hope so.

How

Mr. JONES. Mr. Lipscomb wants to ask you some questions. Mr. LIPSCOMB. I am a little concerned about how you received the information on what the jurisdiction of this subcommittee was. was it that you got the impression as to what our study was about? Mr. WHITMAN. Well, I didn't go down to the beach to our last community meeting, and Mrs. J. G. Anderson, the chairman of the committee down there-her son called me and asked me to appear before you folks in behalf of the community, and that the hearing was to be in regard to the obtaining of Federal funds. Why they were misled in believing that I do not know. They knew estimates had to be prepared and we assumed that those estimates of costs covering protection down there would be presented today.

Now, whether I have misunderstood the objectives of the meeting or not I do not know, but I can only go by the information I have received.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Of course, as Mr. Jones stated, I am also deeply interested in hearing the story, but I do not think we should mislead the citizens.

Mr. WHITMAN. No, I do not think you have misled the citizens. I think it was probably a misunderstanding with a few individuals. There is one other remark I would like to make, Mr. Chairman. Someone has brought out and brought forward a statement about some question of the continuance of the work of the Corps of Engineers and the length of time that it takes them to prepare surveys, and such things.

I want to state on behalf of the North Carolina Society of Engineers that if there is anything we can do to assist the Corps of Engineers in any work they have to do, all you have to do is call on us.

Mr. JONES. Thank you very much.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I hope that that study they were authorized to make under Public Law 71 progresses as rapidly as possible.

Mr. WHITMAN. We know these things cannot be done overnight. We are looking forward down there to obtaining sufficient funds to

get some work under way which will at least be a part of a long-term program to give us adequate and permanent protection.

Mr. JONES. Thank you very much.

Mr. Bob Kerman will be our next witness.

Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. JONES. You may proceed, Mr. Kerman.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT M. KERMAN, CAROLINA BEACH, N. C.

Mr. KERMAN. My name is R. M. Kerman. I have been previously a member of the General Assembly of North Carolina for seven sessions.

I own a motel at Carolina Beach. I am here today more in the interests of the people of North Carolina in general than I am myself, although I am going to use something in my experience as an example. The flood control of North Carolina and throughout the United States is one of the greatest problems that we have today, in my opinion. As Senator Scott said, he lives up at the head of the Cape Fear River, or the river that comes into the Cape Fear River. However, down in our section we get every bit of the water that comes down into the Cape Fear River and goes on into the ocean, thereby causing a great amount of damage as it comes down, by reason of inadequate flood control in the higher areas, which permits it to race off too fast; and this water backs up into the Marlborough Sound through Snow's Cut and the inland waterway, thereby causing water from Kure Beach and Wilmington Beach not being able to flow into the sound. It backs up there and in this last hurricane we had, Ione, with the heavy rains which came down, it caused quite a flooding. Therefore I believe everything that is possible should be done and has to be done through the Federal Government, because the drainage systems in North Carolina are piecemeal, with no coordinated effort being made to carry out the drainage system or to enable effective flood control to be carried on. Therfore I believe that the Federal Government will have to do something about it.

I am not too much in sympathy with the Federal Government's taking too much of a hand in things, but there is one thing they have to take a hand in, just the same as Senator Scott mentioned about the Federal Goverment's taking a hand in the electrification of the State of North Carolina and the United States. They have done great work by causing the public utilities to come in and to do the work that they would not have done otherwise. I went to the general assembly for that purpose. But, gentlemen, the control of floods would mean just as much to the people as the control of your beach properties. The only way I see that the beach properties are going to be controlled is by the Federal Government coming to their aid and placing on their beaches either jetties properly placed there by engineering men, or some dikes to keep this water from coming across.

I have lived in New Hanover County all my life and I have lived on the beach since I have been 10 years of age. My father was a captain of the United States engineers and made a survey of the area for them. I was on the Cape Fear River and on the coast of North Carolina in my early youth and I know what it means, because I have seen the