I couldn't identify and I ended up collapsing, as I said, and I had been off work since and how it ended up was, I needed brain surgery. There was a blockage in the canal in the spine that facilitates the spinal fluid from going down and being disbursed and instead of that it was collecting in my brain pan and my brain was pushed over against the left side of my skull and also--can I finish? Senator KENNEDY. Sure. Mr. NORRIS. And also I've had Bell's Palsy and that accounts for this eye patch, but I have 90 percent vision back, and also in conjunction with the Bell's Palsy, my left leg became totally paralyzed, which put me in the hospital for another 2 weeks. In total I've been in the hospital approximately 7 months in 1977 at approximately $100-plus a day. Senator KENNEDY. And how much did you pay? Mr. NORRIS. Zilch. Senator KENNEDY. What has the health insurance meant to you? Mr. NORRIS. The difference between shooting myself to get my insurance to pay my bills and being here, and may I say something, Senator? Senator KENNEDY. You certainly may. Mr. NORRIS. The main reason I agreed to come here is because my father and my sister are here in Detroit. Senator KENNEDY. And would you like to see that they have the kind of coverage or protection Mr. NORRIS. That is what I meant. Senator KENNEDY. That is why you were willing to come down and tell the story of Canada so that your family who live here would be able to get the same? Mr. NORRIS. Could I mention something else, Senator? I know that most people here wouldn't believe this, but I'm very spoiled. We have had the Windsor Medical in Windsor or socialized medicine since 1935. Senator KENNEDY. Well, I think this case illustrates that Mr. Norris is covered whether he is actively working or not working and whether he is retired or not retired, where Mr. Kovacs who had very fine coverage even after he retired had to worry about specific benefits running out and take his wife out of the facility in order to become eligible again, then argue with the insurance company as to whether the benefits were covered or not and had to shell out $20,000 while waiting to become eligible for medicaid. There is quite a difference in anxiety and emotional stress between the two families. Our final panel will be Mr. and Mrs. David Baer of Detroit, Mich., and Mr. and Mrs. Meloche of Windsor, Ontario. Would you just raise your hands. I think we'll start with Mrs. Baer. You have two children as I un derstand it? STATEMENT OF MRS. BAER, DETROIT, MICH.; AND MRS. MELOCHE, WINDSOR, ONTARIO Mrs. BAER. Yes. Senator KENNEDY. Could you tell us about the medical problems that your daughters have? Mrs. BAER. My daughter has had a kidney disease since when she was born and she has had Senator KENNEDY. Your daughter has had a kidney disease and she was born with this? Mrs. BAER. My daughter has a kidney disease and she was born with this and we have had medical bills since she was born nobody told us. We have paid $16,000 out of our own pockets since she was-from the time she was born till the time she was 5 and then just recently we have been on medicare and they have picked it up, some of the bills from them, since last year. Senator KENNEDY. Now, at what time did they find out that she had a kidney disorder? Mrs. BAER. She was 9 months old. Senator KENNEDY. And this was over the next several months and years that she was in the hospital for four or five times; is that correct? Mrs. BAER. Yes. Senator KENNEDY. And then when she was 6 years old, the doctors made a decision to do what? Mrs. BAER. They gave her a transplant. Senator KENNEDY. Is that a kidney transplant? Mrs. BAER. Kidney transplant. Senator KENNEDY. Has it been successful? Mrs. BAER. So far. Senator KENNEDY. That's wonderful, and where does Mr. Baer work? Mrs. BAER. At Detroit Chemical Industry. Senator KENNEDY. He has a group policy there? Mrs. BAER. Yes. Senator KENNEDY. And what were the bills from the transplant? Mrs. BAER. Well, the transplant itself cost over $23,000 and that was just the transplant. The doctors' bills were over, I'd say, about $2,000 because we kept getting some every couple weeks, we would get a different kind. Senator KENNEDY. Now all of the transplant was covered as I understand it is that correct? Mrs. BAER. Yes. Senator KENNEDY. And the Crippled Children helped pay for some of the remaining; is that correct? Mrs. BAER. The Crippled Children, since we have been on there, have been very good because they picked up whatever the insurance company would not pick up. Senator KENNEDY. What about the early period where the 5 years proceeding, were you covered by Aetna? Mrs. BAER. Yes; we were covered by Aetna. We had to pay a $100 deductible first and then they picked up 80 percent and we had to pay the rest. Senator KENNEDY. How much did that come to? Mrs. BAER. We paid over $16,000. Senator KENNEDY. $16,000 beyond what the coverage was? Mrs. BAER. Yes. Senator KENNEDY. And was this a financial strain? Mrs. BAER. Yes, it was. Senator KENNEDY. Emotional strain? Mrs. BAER. Yes. Senator KENNEDY. What has it meant to your family? Mrs. BAER. Very bad because we are now separated and I have a feeling that that was a lot or part of it, but also-I'm sorry, what is our biggest problem is that when she gets to be 18 or 21, no insurance will cover her any more. They will not pick her up because she is a bad risk. Senator KENNEDY. What do you mean by that? I know what you mean by that, but let's make sure everyone else does. Mrs. BAER. Well, she can't be covered by the insurance, so she's on medicaid. Senator KENNEDY. You mean the insurance company won't cover her? Mrs. BAER. My husband's insurance drops her when she is 18 and medicare or crippled children drops her between 18 and 21, so therefore she won't have anything. Senator KENNEDY. So that is something that you are already worrying about, it's a burden on you now. It's the fear and anxiety that you have thinking of what you're going to do down the line? I hope we have national health insurance long before that time, but I'm glad that point was raised because in instance after instance you find it with other children, mentally retarded children and other kinds of handicapped children. It is a very real problem. Mrs. Meloche, you have a daughter. Could you tell us a little bit about what happened to her? Mrs. MELOCHE. She had brain surgery. She had a tumor on her brain and she's gone through six operations. Senator KENNEDY. How old is she? Mrs. MELOCHE. She was four when it all started. Senator KENNEDY. And how old is she now? Mrs. MELOCHE. She will be six in a couple of weeks. Senator KENNEDY. How many thousands of dollars would you say you've accumulated in hospital bills? Mrs. MELOCHE. We have an approximate estimate of almost $16,000, but that is just her hospital visit care and in London or Windsor and London and visits to doctor in London. That doesn't include the cost of any operations. Senator KENNEDY. Did you have to pay for any of those? Mrs. MELOCHE. All we had to pay was $70 because of the anesthesia. Mrs. MELOCHE. That's all we paid. Senator KENNEDY. And do you have any anxiety about the future of your daughter for her health needs or coverage? Mrs. MELOCHE. Everything. She goes to Crippled Childrens now and we have never had to pay anything there and she has a brace on her leg Senator KENNEDY. How about when she gets a little older? You've heard Mrs. Baer's concern about what happens when her daughter grows up. Are you concerned about the health aspect of what will happen to your daughter when she is grown? Mrs. MELOCHE. We don't. Senator KENNEDY. Because the national health program covers her? Mrs. MELOCHE. Yes. Senator KENNEDY. I want to thank our panelists. I think it has been told in human terms as graphically as could be possibly stated about the contrasting systems that exist in the United States and exist in Canada, not only about the gaps that we've heard about, about being covered up to a certain day and then not being covered after a certain day, not just to mention the questions about where after retirement the family has been virtually wiped out in fear of having to sell their house, or the United States, the fact that the mother continues after spending their life savings and bringing extraordinary kinds of tension and anxiety to their family, emotional problems to that particular family, worries about what is going to happen to her child when she grows up, and the dramatic contrast between what happens in Canada where we have heard from the senior citizens about different health problems that they have had and yet their bills have been met. We have heard about retirement, young mothers dealing with young children, about the continuing kinds of medical problems and all of the financial aspects have been paid. I think beyond that is the emotional problem and the anxiety and although our Canadian friends have described that and I think that is a very important factor in terms of adoption of a health insurance proposal, the relief of anxiety to parents and to senior citizens and others in our community from the anxiety of health care bills, and I think the final point is the Canadians are able to do this with even paying for the taxi service to the clinic and visiting nurse services. We had and I'm sure our friends from Canada wouldn't be surprised we had testimony in our health committee where our friends from Canada came to the United States and felt sick and ill and were admitted to hospitals here and had those bills paid for completely and they do it at a remarkably economic cost. They do it spending less percent for GNP for health care than we do in the United States, and so they do it from a sound economic point of view, a cost effective point of view and from a human point of view, and I think through the experience of these families here I think it spells up the contrast between a country that has a comprehensive health insurance program and one that does not. We're enormously grateful to all of you and I don't know whether Senator Griffin would just Senator GRIFFIN. I just want to say I'm glad as a fellow senator to be here and to welcome you to Michigan. We're exceedingly proud of the fact that you have picked Detroit as the site of this hearing. Senator Kennedy, of course, is the chairman of the health committee of the human resources committee in the Senate. We used to serve together on that committee when it had a different name, the Labor and Public Welfare Committee years ago. There isn't any question that Senator Kennedy is providing outstanding leadership in this field, controversial to be sure, but without question it touches the lives of every American. He's leading not only Republicans and Democrats but even is leading the administration as far as this particular subject is concerned, and over the course of some time I'm sure that some changes are going to be made in the kind of health care system that the United States provides. I don't other than to pay him my respects and to welcome you, Senator Kennedy, to Michigan. I know that these hearings are going to be important, not only to the people of our State but they are going to be important to the Congress as they consider this subject. Thank you very much. Senator KENNEDY. Well, we would love to have your cosponsorship on that, Bob. We've got a little room on that bill for that. Thank you very much. I want to thank all of our participants again. We will be in order now. We want to give a warm word of welcome to Mr. Fraser, who is the president of the UAW and is also chairman of our technical committee on health insurance. It is a coalition group of church leaders, senior citizens, representatives of farm and labor organizations combined with the AFL-CIO, and have been one of the real important forces to try and achieve a comprehensive health insurance program for all Americans. All of us are enormously grateful and we are very mindful that the UAW through the work of Mr. Reuther and Mr. Fraser and Leonard Woodcock have a very good health care program for their employees. It is a great tribute to their leadership that they're not just pursuing this for their own employees, but they are pursuing it for all Americans. It is a great tribute to the leadership of that organization, and I think it is something all Americans should understand. Mr. Fraser is an old friend and one of the most thoughtful men and knowledgeable men about this issue in these United States. We're pleased and grateful to have you, Mr. Fraser. We will ask you to proceed in your own way. STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS FRASER, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED AUTO WORKERS Mr. FRASER. If you don't mind, Senator Kennedy, I'll submit a statement and just make a few remarks. With me, is Mel Glasser, director of the NAW Social Security Department. I want to thank you for this opportunity to appear before you to testify and I also want to thank Senator Griffin for being here today. I appear before you today on behalf of the Michigan contingent of our union. We are some 550,000 members, including our retirees, and taking into account the UAW family, we represent some 2 million citizens just in the State of Michigan. I appear here to support the new national health insurance proposal which was developed by the Technical Advisory Committee of the National Health Security Action Council, and which you recently introduced. Mr. Chairman, for a long time we have been critical of the current health care delivery system in our country, but today we want to concentrate upon our home State, because Michigan is an example of a health care system is disarray. The problems in Michigan are familiar because they follow the national norm, but I think they are accentuated here. Health care costs are completely out of hand. Increasing numbers of Michigan citizens are being priced out of the health care market and this has an impact upon unions and their negotiations. We're approaching the point where one dollar an hour from the collective bargaining package is being spent on health care. Unfortunately at times |