Mr. MCINTOSH. I do not have your identities with me, so if you would please identify yourself and where you are from and which organizations you are representing when you give your testimony. I would ask each of you to please join me in taking an oath. Chairman Burton requires that we ask all of our witnesses to be sworn in. So it has nothing to do with you individually. Please rise and take the following oath.

[Witnesses sworn.]

Mr. MCINTOSH. Let the record show that each of the witnesses answered in the affirmative.

Let us start first with Celene. Thank you for coming today. Please tell us what happened to you and your experience with identity theft. You are welcome to summarize your testimony. We will put the entire written testimony into the record.

STATEMENTS OF CELENE CROSS, IDENTITY THEFT VICTIM, MACOMB, IL; MARVIN YOUNG, IDENTITY THEFT VICTIM, OAKLAND, CA; GREGORY T. NOJEIM, LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION; SOLANGE BITOL, LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION; AND GROVER NORQUIST, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS FOR TAX REFORM

MS. CROSS. Thank you for inviting me. My name is Celene Cross, and I have been a victim of identity theft. I had this all written up last night. And when I read it and I tried to be as specific as possible, it took me 10 minutes. So I am going to try and sum it up, but this is the file that I have accumulated because of this in the last 3 years. I will just tell a little bit about what happened and the problems it has caused me.

In September 1995, I received a phone call from a collection agency for CitiBank Visa telling me that I owed $4,500 on my CitiBank Visa, to which I responded, "What CitiBank Visa?" As it turned out, I was listed as a primary person on this account, and a man by the name of A.J. Woodson was listed as secondary person on the account, and all of the credit cards were going to his address.

Upon further research, I learned that he had taken three other forms of credit out and used approximately $17,000 worth of credit using my name and Social Security number. When he took the credit card applications out, the only thing that he needed were my name and Social Security number. All the other information, previous address, birth date, mother's maiden name, place of employment, were erroneous. And the credit card companies granted him the credit, all four of them, did not verify my place of employment. And all that information changed on my credit reports as well. So the only thing that remained accurate was my name and Social Security number, and those two things changed throughout the course of this, too, eventually.

I also learned that the credit card-this is another issue but I think it is important-the credit card companies are not required to verify place of employment. I called the place where he said I worked and I did not work there. The credit card companies were not liable.

In fact, I learned that the credit card companies are considered the victims in this matter, not me, and they are the ones that are

responsible for prosecuting the person who stole my identity. And since they have no-there is no-they are not going to gain anything from doing this, none of them did it.

One of the accounts that he took out was a live loan, which is a check. I do not know if anyone has gotten these in the mail. It is a live loan check, and you sign the check and you make payments back to that check. Well, he had signed a thousand dollar live loan check; and I was able to get a copy of this check and file a police report and have him charged with forgery.

However, dealing with the kind of personality that would steal someone's identity to begin with, he claimed that he had a sister named Celene Cross, that her Social Security number was different by one number, and that he had signed the check in good faith. And it took a year and a half to have him prosecuted.

After 6 months of his writing sort of notarized letters to the banks stating that there is another Celene Cross whose Social Security number was different by one number, and the reason why everything was going through him was because her ex-husband was stalking her, the police and the postal inspector tracked him down at his employment and told him that he needed to produce this person. A few days later he went into the police department and told them, no, the real story was he had run a Sears credit card up and that he had met a woman at a bowling alley who claimed to be a stripper and paid her to take her name, to use her name and Social Security number.

I don't know if he knows what I look like or not. But apparently the information that he gave the police and my appearance are enough alike that the police did not believe me, and I was accused by the postal inspector of basically lying. I remember distinctly the phone call, "Look, lady, we don't have time to pursue things that we are not going to prosecute. And if it comes right down to it, you are going to have to submit to a polygraph if this person convinces enough people that he is telling the truth."

To which, at that point, after going through it for however long, a year and a half at that point, I was astonished. And he has since admitted that he didn't meet anyone. He has changed his story again. I do not know what the true story is.

I contacted several agencies for assistance. I have mentioned some of them already. The local police, State's attorney, the postal inspectors, U.S. Secret Service, Illinois Attorney General's Office, U.S. Attorney General's Office, the FTC, the Social Security Administration, my State rep, and my U.S. Congressman.

And, by the way, I don't think it is an accident that I am the one that is kind of representing my income here today. I just think that I have pursued this much farther than anyone would. I had hit brick walls over and over again, and I am still not done. I have done all this myself, since I have heard horror stories of people paying money to attorneys to get nowhere, and I think I have probably accomplished more than any attorney could have done.

I think there is one thing that you need to know, I suppose. When I contacted the U.S. Attorney's Office, because he had forged my name on these credit card applications and it is Federal fraud to use my Social Security number, they advised me that they don't pursue cases in which under $100,000 was used.

So, I don't know how many people where there is less than $100,000 worth of credit was used, it doesn't seem there is any consequence or law-consequence, I guess, against anyone using up to that much credit and getting away with it scot-free.

I was able to have this person prosecuted for the $1,000 live loan check. I took the check to the police department. The place where he took out the credit, AFSCI, they refused to prosecute him even though they were considered the victims. Then they refused to take my name off the account. Even after I had him prosecuted, they refused to take my name off the account.

I finally had them take it off about a year and a half after that, when the man-he didn't work there anymore. He received $101 fine, $25 court costs, misdemeanor theft under probation, and restitution. His probation period is over. He paid his fine. And his life goes on. Mine, however, doesn't and hasn't.

At the time that I learned of this, I was a single mother of a 9month-old daughter, running my own business. Those two things are stressful in and of themselves.

Mr. MCINTOSH. I have a 10-month-old at home. I know how it is.

Ms. CROSS. She is 32 years old right now. So, she has dealt most of my life dealing with this. I feel it has taken time out of my life. I was very frustrated and angry much of the time. I just recently expanded my business. My parents have the resources to help me out. But I have not been able to get credit to expand my business, which I would have done so earlier.

My living arrangements, I wouldn't have lived there as long as I had. My father just helped me purchase a house. But I am having to rely on them to help me out.

Mr. MCINTOSH. So you have been denied credit by various agencies?

Ms. CROSS. Yes. And I apply every 6 months for credit. I just was thinking about this as I was sitting here. I apply for credit every 6 months and the accounts have been taken off, but the only kind of credit card applications that I get in the mail now are secured credit card applications. And regardless of your bad credit history, and I don't know how they are getting-I'm not sure quite why I am on those mailing lists if it is a fact that those accounts have been deleted off my credit reports.

And just 2 days ago, I was cleaning off my bulletin board and I had a live loan check for $2,500 up on it, and I realized it had his address on the check, and that was dated June 1998. So I had to go to the post office again. I do this about every 6 months, go to the post office and have my address changed from his address where he was having all those things sent, to my address again. I have just quit applying for credit altogether. I am still not done with this fight.

There are some more things that I want to try and do to clean it up. When I called the bank to find out where they got the address on the live loan check, they said that it came from some mailing list. They have so many mailing lists there is no way for them to track it down. So, you know, I feel like it could go on indefinitely.

[The prepared statement of Ms. Cross follows:]

TESTIMONY OF

CELENE CROSS

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL ECONOMIC
GROWTH, NATURAL RESOURCES, AND
REGULATORY AFFAIRS

SEPTEMBER 17, 1998

My name is Celene Cross and I am a victim of identity theft. This is my story. In September 1995, I received a phone call from a collection agency telling me I owed $4,500 on a Citibank Visa to which I responded, "What Citibank Visa?" As it turns out, I was listed as the primary person on this account of which I was not aware and a man by the name of A.J. Woodson was listed as the secondary person which he had opened a year earlier. I was given his address and phone number and was advised to contact Citibank Visa and fill out a fraud affidavit, which I did. Citibank Visa suggested I get a copy of my credit report to find out if there were any more fraudulent accounts, which I did. I discovered he took out three other accounts using my name and social security number. I contacted the three other banks, First USA, Star Bank and AFSCI and filled out fraud affidavits with them as well.

To this day I have never met this person and have racked my brain trying to think of how he could have gotten my name and social security number since I am quite cautious with it. The only connections we seem to have is that we both attended Western Illinois University at the same time while he was a freshman and I was a Graduate student and he is from Springfield, Illinois and I lived there for a year. All in all, he used approximately $17,000 worth of credit using my name and social security number.

I thought this was a clear cut case of forgery since he had forged my name on the credit applications and so proceeded to contact the U.S. Secret Service, the Postal Inspectors in Macomb and Springfield and the Social Security Administration for resolution to no avail. Upon further investigation I learned that the banks, not me, were the victims and that they were responsible for prosecuting him, not me. I further learned that none of the banks were willing to prosecute him; after all, what would they gain by doing so? I also learned that the U.S. Attorney's Office will not pursue cases in which less than $100,000 worth of credit has been used. I filed a report with my local police department in Macomb, Illinois, which told me I would have to press charges in the jurisdictions where the credit had been used. When I tried to get copies of the accounts from the banks, they told me they could not release that information since I had all ready reported it fraudulent.

I spoke to the State's Attorney in my local county, McDonough, who referred me to the Sangamon County State's Attorney, where A.J. Woodson lived. Since one of the accounts was a live loan for $1,000 and A.J. Woodson had forged my name on the back of this check I filed a report of forgery against him with the Springfield Police Department. About a year and a half later, the Sangamon County State's Attorney charged Woodson with a misdemeanor theft under $300 and fined him $101

plus $25 court costs and restitution. He paid his fine and his probation period is over. I called this bank, AFSCI, after his prosecution, which had initially refused to prosecute him and refused to take my name off of the account. I told them to take my name off the account, that he had been prosecuted and asked if they wanted the case number. I was told, "No, I do not want the case number and no, we will not take your name off of this account." About a year and half later, and after his employment at that agency, I was able to have my name removed from the account, but it had been passed onto another agency at that point and was not an easy task.

I suppose the point of my trying to get him prosecuted was so that I could prove the accounts were fraudulent and my credit reports could be cleared completely of these accounts. I have come to find that his prosecution has had little to do with the state of my credit reports. When A.J. Woodson filled out the credit applications, the only identification he needed was my name and social security number. The address, previous address, mother's maiden name, birth date, phone numbers, and place of employment were listed erroneously on the credit card applications, but he was still granted the credit. I thought that the banks would be liable since they did not verify this information, but verifying this information is optional by law, which relieves them of any responsibility.

I also had problems with all of the banks having these accounts removed from my credit reports, even after A.J. Woodson fully confessed in writing to all of the banks involved and all three credit reporting agencies that he took these accounts out without my consent or knowledge, that he wanted to take full responsibility for their balances, and he had no affiliation with me.

I have a low to moderate income. I do not know how far people in my income bracket pursue these cases. I had heard horror stories about people hiring an attorney to clean up a mess like this, but all they would end up with was a fat bill from an attorney who was not able to resolve a thing so that is why I pursued it myself. I ran into so many brick walls that I think most people would have given up long before now yet I continue to fight this losing battle. Every piece of personal data on my credit reports has been incorrect at one point or another since this began. Accounts that have been taken off later came back as "disputed". My birthrate, place of employment, address, previous address, spelling of my name and my social security number have been incorrect on them at one time or another. I have documented nearly every phone call and every correspondence made throughout this ordeal and resented it every step of the way, not to mention the emotional turmoil it has caused

me.

This has been going on for four and a half years and my files are now divided into years. Since the Fair Credit Reporting Act was amended in September 1997, I have had two credit reports come back entirely clean and one report come back with one mistake. I have not double-checked to see if these reports are still clean, but in the past whenever 30 days had passed, a bunch of fraudulent data would return which I did not understand. I probably have around 30 copies of incorrect credit reports. I was finally told that the banks send tapes to the credit reporting agencies every 30 days so the reason why incorrect data kept popping back up on my credit reports was because one or more of the banks had not entirely remove my name from their databases. When I asked the credit reporting agency which bank/s the false information was coming from, they could not tell me. They also told me that there was information on my credit report that showed up on their computer, like "ghost accounts", which would not show up on my copy of the credit report.

In addition, I have had to deal with the type of personality that would steal