GENERAL STATEMENT

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Mr. Chairman and Senator Hill, we are here this afternoon under the aegis of Public Law 87-415, known as the Manpower Development and Training Act, which became the law of the land on March 15, 1962, passed by the Congress and signed by the President.

Under title III, section 304 (d), the act authorizes an appropriation of $5 million for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1962 for planning and starting programs under the act. We are here this afternoon to

request $2,850,000 for this particular purpose, which is about 50 percent of the authorization for 1962.

This is based on a careful rundown of what we believe we can actually do during the balance of this current fiscal year, Senator; how many people we can hire; how many people we can actually put on the payroll; how much of the funds we can actually use.

I would like to point out very briefly that about 85 percent of the funds which we are requesting will go to the States to get this program started.

Senator HILL. To the States. Give us a little picture of in what way they will go to the States, will you please, sir?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Yes. The law has a rather complicated formula with five parts which determines the allocation to be made to the various States. We haven't worked out all the final figures to the last digit, but this is based on the formula in the act to be applied to the amount of money that would be available.

I would also like to call your attention, Senator, to the fact that the $2,850,000 that we are requesting, we are suggesting come from funds already appropriated for the current fiscal year.

Senator HILL. Then you are not asking for a new appropriation? Mr. WOLFBEIN. Exactly. The current fiscal year does have funds for the unemployment compensation payments for Federal employees and ex-servicemen. We find with some improvement in the economy that we will not use all of those funds and we are suggesting that the $2,850,000 be transferred from that particular fund for use in getting started under the new Manpower Act.

Senator HILL. Was this item presented to the House?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. No, sir.
Senator HILL. It was not?
Mr. WOLFBEIN. It was not.

We are here for the first time.

Senator HILL. This is the first time?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Yes, sir.

Senator HILL. Did it come up in the President's message on yesterday of new estimates?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Yes, sir.

Senator HILL. What would be the effect if you didn't get these funds?

REASONS FOR REQUEST FOR FUNDS

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Very briefly, Senator Hill, we are asking for these funds for the following reason: The act directs us to get ready in fiscal year 1962, although it says, we shall not actually refer anybody to training programs until July 1 of this year; in other words, the beginning of next fiscal year.

Now, what we have to do, very briefly, is as follows: The act says that in order to approve training programs there must be a reasonable expectation of a job in the offing; secondly, there have to be unemployed folks available who are qualified to take the training necessary to prepare themselves for those occupations and skills. So one of the first things we must do as quickly as possible is get the States which will get the bluk of this money we are now requesting to begin to line up the necessary occupations and make the surveys which will show us what specific occupations and jobs are in view. We will process the applicants; determine eligibility; test, counsel and provide guidance, and select people for specific training so that when the gun goes off July 1, we will be ready to make referrals for training.

There is one other thing. The Department of Health, Education, and Welfare is also required under the statute, in cooperation with us, to get the training facilities ready. We are requesting funds for them here to do that.

Senator HILL. You say you are requesting funds. Are those funds. in addition to the $2,850,000?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. No, sir.

FUNDS FOR PRELIMINARY

PLANNING

Senator HILL. In other words, the $2,850,000 requested then is for what we might call preliminary preparatory steps up to the point of actually putting the trainee into the school or place where he is going to be trained? Is that right?

CARRYOVER FUNDS

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Exactly. May I call one other item to your attention? Of the $2,850,000, Senator, we are asking for $750,000 of carryover funds so that for the first couple of weeks of fiscal 1963 we will be able to put these folks actually into training. Therefore, $2.1 million is requested for what we have just talked about to get the program started. The $750,000 of carryover funds is for the first week or 10 days of the fiscal year, so that we can really start referring people for training come July 1.

RESULT OF DELAY IN REGULAR FUNDING

Senator HILL. Suppose you don't get your regular funds by July 1. What then? I mean, sometimes there are delays, as we know. Mr. WOLFBEIN. That is, I think, exactly the reason why we are requesting this, so we get a little start.

Senator Hill. You estimate then the $750,000 would give you the funds that you might need to tide you through?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Yes, sir.

Senator HILL. Until you got the other funds to pay for the training? Mr. WOLFBEIN. Yes, sir. I think that is about it, Senator, except I would like to emphasize very briefly again that we have drawn up a staffing pattern here and it is our estimate, with our colleagues from the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, to make it as realistic as possible on what we can do this fiscal year.

STATUS OF 1963 ESTIMATE

Senator HILL. What is the status of your estimate for 1963? Mr. WOLFBEIN. This we are still working on in our own Department and with the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, on how best to recommend to you the expenditure of the funds authorized by the act, which is $100 million in fiscal 1963. We hope to have this to the Budget Bureau by Monday.

Senator HILL. The Budget Bureau, you say, by Monday?

Mr. HUDSON. We would like to have it over there by Monday. Senator HILL. It will be cleared by both the Department of Labor, the Department of HEW, and in the hands of the Budget Bureau by Monday; is that right?"

Mr. HUDSON. Yes, sir; that is the schedule.

FUNDS TRANSFERRED

Senator HILL. You say every dollar of this $2,850,000 is to be transferred from the appropriations which we made available for other purposes for the present fiscal year 1962?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Exactly, sir. This is no new money.

Senator HILL. Money that you did not have to use for compensation payments to unemployed Federal people and ex-servicemen? Mr. WOLFBEIN. That is right, sir.

Senator HILL. Are you asking for the full $100 million? Are you at liberty to say what your Department is going to ask for at this time?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. We are planning to recommend to the Budget Bureau and to you the full $100 million authorized by the basic legislation. I guess I should say that these statements we have provided this afternoon have that kind of

Senator HILL. They are the basis for that kind of a full program under the Training Act; is that right?

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Yes, sir.

TELEGRAM FROM ALABAMA VOCATIONAL EDUCATION DIRECTOR

Senator HILL. I have a telegram here from the State director of vocational education, Mr. G. F. Ingram, of the State of Alabama in which he says:

Proposed language supplemental appropriation for Manpower Act: "Provided, That not less than $790,000 for grants to States and in addition such amounts as needed by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1962, for salaries and expenses in carrying out its responsibilities shall be transferred to the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare as soon as available".

Any comment on that?

COMMENT FROM DEPARTMENT

Mr. WOLFBEIN. Perhaps my colleagues from the Office of Health, Education, and Welfare would like to comment.

Senator HILL. Will you give your name?

Mr. HUGHES. John Hughes, Executive Officer of the Office of Education.

Senator HILL. What is your comment on this?

Mr. HUGHES. I think the appropriation request that is before the committee has been worked out between the Department of Labor and the Department of HEW and is satisfactory to both Departments in terms of the manner and the method of allocation of funds, sir, and I do not believe that there would be any desire on our part to depart from that pattern as presented by the administration.

Senator HILL. You speak now for the Department of HEW, which really has the main responsibility, certainly in the past it has, for vocational education; isn't that right?

Mr. HUGHES. That is right.

Senator HILL. And your funds for vocational education have in the past passed through the HEW to the States and their subdivisions; is that right?

Mr. HUGHES. Yes. We have every expectation of course, that the funds that are in this request would be transferred to the Department

of HEW and to the Office of Education for allocation to States in manners similar to those now in effect for vocational education programs operated by State agencies and, therefore, have cooperated fully in the development of this request which is now before the

committee.

INTEREST IN STATES

Senator HILL. Do you find many of the States interested in these training programs that you contemplate under this act?

Mr. HUGHES. We have evidence of great interest on the part of the State agencies in this program, Senator Hill, and I would like to ask Dr. Arnold of our staff to comment specifically on a meeting that was held with some 15 of the State directors just last week in the Office of Education.

Senator HILL. All right, Doctor.

Mr. ARNOLD. Senator Hill, we invited 15 representative State directors into Washington for a 2-day meeting to consult with us about implementing training programs under the act, and first of all they were very deeply interested in the program and in many instances as a result of the training programs under the Area Redevelopment Act have already begun to get ready to conduct training.

I think these gentlemen are somewhat representative of the other States and we would expect that training programs would begin almost at once when funds became available.

Senator HILL. Senator Holland?

Senator HOLLAND. I have noted with interest that your testimony indicates that some $750,000 of the supplemental appropriation, if it is made, will be expended not in fiscal 1962, but upon the program of the new Manpower Development and Training Act of 1963. So that the record may be clear, please state just what is the foundation for that request and what makes it clearly appropriate in this, which is a supplemental appropriation bill for fiscal 1962?

Mr. HUDSON. I think, Senator Holland, the answer to that is that we are trying to get a cushion in the event we don't have our regular appropriation for 1963 available by July 1, 1963. The act calls for trainee referrals and training programs to start on July 1, and we wanted to get some money out into the States so that they could continue to carry on their program until funds were appropriated. Senator HOLLAND. I think I understood that completely from the testimony of the earlier witness. The question I am trying to bring into the record here now is one of making sure that this is an appropriate item for a supplemental appropriation bill for fiscal 1962.

Are there provisions in the basic legislation which set up the manpower development and training activities which in your judgment. makes this an appropriate item for a supplemental bill for 1962?

Mr. HUDSON. We think it is, sir, in that particular provision of the Manpower Development and Training Act.

Senator HOLLAND. What provision do you refer to?

Mr. HUDSON. It is title III, section 305, subsection (d) which says: Funds appropriated under this act shall remain available for 1 fiscal year beyond that in which appropriated.

NO LIMITATION AGAINST 1962 ACTION

Senator HOLLAND. Are there any limitation words under the basic act that would make the whole program appropriation and everything