to small operators who, even though exempt, have to pay at least the legal minimum to get satisfactory workers.

As the Forest Farmers Association understands it, this increase is aimed at helping the individual working man, and perhaps most of all the lowest paid worker. Frankly, we feel that if this is the motive, it is a very noble one. However, careful study seems to indicate that such action would more often than not do this man more harm than good, as well as create serious difficulties for his employer and the economy in general.

Since this minimum wage was only recently raised from $0.75 to $1— a whopping 33% percent, another jump of 25 percent from $1 to $1.25, as currently proposed, would represent a total increase in the past 3 years of 66% percent (that would be from $0.75 to $1.25). Certainly the profits of few businessmen, large or small, have advanced enough during this period to justify such a wage increase.

Business in general, and small businessmen in particular, have just come through a very severe recession which saw profits drop so much that many wondered how long they could stay in business. We are only now beginning to recover from this difficult period. To eliminate the 12-man exemption and the seasonal exemption which is very important to certain sections of the country, and also to raise the minimum wage another 25 percent would undoubtedly amount to legislating many of us small people out of business. Another result would be to make the current unemployment problem even more serious.

In addition, boosting the minimum wage another 25 percent for a total of 662% percent in 3 years-by that I mean from 75 cents to $1.25-would certainly stimulate further inflation, and make our dollars worth less and less.

In small rural communities such as my own, the results of eliminating the 12-man exemption and raising the minimum wage could be disastrous. Employment opportunities are already quite limited, and the average worker would have the choice of finding some employer who could pay him $1.25 per hour, or the worker could go on relief.

As I see it, there would be no other choice. Frankly, this would pinch the poorest qualified and lowest paid workers hardest-in many instances they would be actually legislated out of their jobs. I hope the committee will not underemphasize the importance of this problem. It would be a very real and personal one in my own little community, and I know that a lot of families wouldn't understand why their breadwinner was not allowed to work if he couldn't make $1.25 per hour.

Meanwhile, another little man would also be hurt by increasing the minimum wage-the small timberland owner. After all, someone would have to pay for this increase. We all know that. Now, if the employer doesn't increase his profits by 25 percent, someone has to make up the difference. One result could be offering landowners less for their timber, and again, the little man gets hurt. At this point, I want to mention that the growing, harvesting, and processing of timber have much in common with raising of other agricultural crops. Our people consider it as such, and call areas where these crops are grown tree farms.

Timber crops, like row crops, cannot be harvested every day in the year, and harvesting crews may be idle for a week at a time, or work unusually long hours, just like other farmers, due to the uncertainties of nature. Since row crop farmers are exempt from provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act, for these very reasons we feel that small forest farmers and operators should likewise be exempt.

Frankly, we small timberland owners and operators need all the breaks we can get just to survive in today's economy, but I believe the small man is still extremely important in our American way of life. I thank the committee for its courtesy in allowing me to present the views of the Forest Farmers Association, and your consideration to the retention of the 12-man and seasonal exemption, and to holding the minimum wage at $1 per hour will be most helpful and appreciated. Thank you.

Senator CLARK. Senator Cooper.

Senator COOPER. No questions.

Senator CLARK. Mr. Dedeaux, do you do a certain amount of logging yourself?

Mr. DEDEAUX. Yes, sir, I do a certain amount of logging myself.
Senator CLARK. What do you pay your help?

Mr. DEDEAUX. A lot of it is done on a piecework basis and, generally, their wages will run from $1 to $1.50 an hour, generally well above the minimum wage.

Senator CLARK. If you pay them that much, why would you object to having the minimum raised?

Mr. DEDEAUX. I would object primarily because of the general upward push, the inflationary spiral that would be generated by raising the minimum wage.

Senator CLARK. But this wouldn't affect your labor costs, would it? Mr. DEDEAUX. Yes, it would affect my labor. I have to compete for labor with other industries, and when you raise the minimum wage, my observation has been that you don't just raise the lowest paid worker. Everybody up the line gets pushed, too.

Senator CLARK. Yes, but if you are paying more than $1.25 an hour, it is a little difficult for me to see why it would hurt you if the floor were placed lower than what you are paying anyway.

Mr. DEDEAUX. You would get, as I say, an upward push. It may not affect me for the first week or two, or the first month or two.

Senator CLARK. What is the general rate of your unskilled labor in your vicinity now?

Mr. DEDEAUX. The general rate is $1 an hour.

Senator CLARK. Thank you, sir.

Senator COOPER. May I ask a question? What kind of a logging operation do you conduct?

Mr. DEDEAUX. I conduct primarily pulpwood logging operations, Senator.

Senator CLARK. You are not in the sawmill business, then?

Mr. DEDEAUX. No. I sometimes do a little sawlog logging but, incidentally, usually.

Senator CLARK. Do you own the timberland yourself?

Mr. DEDEAUX. I do own some timberland myself, yes, sir.

Senator CLARK. How do you get the rest of the pulpwood? Do you just buy it from timber owners?

Mr. DEDEAUX. Yes, sir, I buy some from timber owners, and then I buy some from independent contractors who have purchased it themselves, and then, in turn, they sell it to me at a rail point or some point at delivery.

Senator CLARK. Do you contract with pulp mills to furnish them a certain amount of pulpwood?

Mr. DEDEAUX. I do sell pulpwood to pulp mills, yes, sir.

Senator CLARK. And you have some point on the railroad where they bring the pulpwood to you?

Mr. DEDEAUX. I have two main points, yes, sir, where I buy pulpwood delivered to a rail yard.

Senator CLARK. Do you subcontract with some timber owners, or rather pulp people who bring the cut timber to your loading point? Mr. DEDEAUX. Yes, sir, quite a bit of it is done that

way.

Senator COOPER. In your business, how many contractors or timber owners would you have working delivering the pulp for you over a season?

Mr. DEDEAUX. Well, I may be at any given time, Senator, purchasing pulpwood from anywhere from 4 to 10 independent producers. It varies.

Senator COOPER. In that 4 to 10, how many of them are ordinarily just farmers or timber owners who cut their own wood and bring it to you, and how many of them are subcontractors who hire men to cut wood?

Mr. DEDEAUX. In my immediate area, sir, most, probably threefourths of those people are primarily engaged in the business of pulpwood producing. About one-fourth of them are farmers who would be cutting their own timber.

Senator COOPER. Those are constantly and annually engaged in delivering pulpwood. On the average, how many men will they employ?

Mr. DEDEAUX. There again, that varies. It will run from two men to as many as a dozen.

Senator COOPER. You pay them so much a cord?

Mr. DEDEAUX. I purchase the wood from them, yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. Do you know yourself how much they pay their men?

Mr. DEDEAUX. Not definitely. I have a very good idea of what they pay their men, yes, sir.

Senator COOPER. Do they pay them by the hour?

Mr. DEDEAUX. It is piecework, sir.

Senator COOPER. They pay them by the cord. The contractors, with whom you deal, do they pay the men who actually cut and produce this pulpwood, do they pay them by the day, or are they also paid by the cord?

Mr. DEDEAUX. About 90 percent of them, I believe, pay their employees on a piecework basis, so much per cord for the cutting, hauling and various breakdowns of the operation.

Senator COOPER. On a piecework basis, have you got any information that would show what they actually make per hour? Do you have any figures on that?

Mr. DEDEAUX. No, sir, I have no figures on that, actually, Senator. I would only be able to give you an estimate. People don't ordinarily keep records.

Senator CLARK. Didn't I understand you to say a little while ago that it was $1 an hour?

Mr. DEDEAUX. $1 an hour is the general wage for unskilled labor in my area, yes, sir.

Senator CLARK. But I thought I understood you to say-correct me if I am wrong—that while you pay on a piecework basis, in your judgment it worked out to around $1 an hour in the ordinary state. Mr. DEDEAUX. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Senator COOPER. I assume that you are buying pulpwood from Bill Jones, who owns his own timber. He, himself, cuts it with his two boys. Do you believe that this amendment would place them within the act?

Mr. DEDEAUX. My understanding of it is that if the 12-man exemption is eliminated, then that particular person would come under the wage and hours law. That is my understanding.

Senator COOPER. May I ask if any of your argument against this is based upon any competitive factor?

Mr. DEDEAUX. Will you clarify that, please?

Senator COOPER. May I ask if your argument against this exemption, against removing the exemption, is based upon any belief that if it were removed and labor costs were raised, it would make you and the other pulpwood dealers in your area unable to compete with other areas? Is your argument based in any way upon that?

Mr. DEDEAUX. Certainly there is a competitive aspect to it, Senator, by all means.

None of us that are in business want to increase our costs more than is necessary; but from the standpoint of the 12-man exemption, my primary argument there is that the small operator like myself and the people I purchase wood from, would be unable to have the facilities to keep up with the necessary records and time cards, and so forth, that they would have to keep, if they operated under the wage and hours law.

And even if we did not have to operate under it, if we kept our 12man exemption, and if the minimum wage was raised to $1.25, then the competitive forces for labor would also force our labor costs up, even though we weren't subject to it.

Senator CLARK. Thank you, Mr. Dedeaux.

Mr. Myers, do you have another witness you want to have us hear? Mr. Jackson is not here?

Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Jackson is here. Mr. Jackson does not have a statement, sir, but I would like to make one comment here.

We did not intend to bring this out earlier, but due to certain previous testimony, I believe it is only fair and it should be brought out that Mr. Jackson-the statement was made that the disabled workers had no place in the woods and that they couldn't keep up and that they couldn't run a business. Well, Mr. Jackson, it so happens, has a 100 happens, percent disability from the Army. He has both of his feet off in the Bulge and the other one while they were waiting to pick him up, and he has got two artificial feet and he gets around the woods and he is not working on disability, he is working on ability, and he is making a living, and we are real proud of him. We think it is not fair to say that men like that have no place in the woods, sir.

Senator CLARK. We are happy to have that comment, Mr. Myers. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

Mr. DEDEAUX. Thank you.

Senator CLARK. Our next witness is Mr. Henry C. Waldo, director, Northeastern Loggers Association, Lincoln, N.H.

We are happy to have you here. I see your prepared statement is eight pages long. I wonder if you could put it in the record in full and I will ask you to summarize it.

I will have placed in the record at this point a statement of Adam Scott.

(The statement referred to follows:)

STATEMENT OF ADAM SCOTT

My name is Adam Scott. I am 44 years of age and live in Buncombe County, N.C. My address is Route 3, Candler, N.C.

I have been in the pulpwood business since I was a young boy, and at the present time I own a truck and have two men working for me. I buy wood from various private owners and pay stumpage as it is cut. My men cut it and are paid by the pound for the amount which they cut. They usually only work part time cutting wood. Some days they will work 6 or 7 hours, others half a day and some days they work on their farms. In other words, they are not employed regularly by me, and I do not keep time on them. They work as they please, and I only ask them to keep enough wood cut to keep my truck busy. I do the hauling, and take the wood to the Champion Paper and Fibre Co. at Canton. I am paid for the wood when it is delivered, and then pay my men. The amount of stumpage is usually held out under a contract and is paid direct to the owner of the wood.

Since I drive the truck, I am on the road most of the time and it would be impossible for me to keep the time the men work, and since the operation is so small, I certainly could not pay a timekeeper. The men working for me have been with me for about 5 years, and are perfectly satisfied with the present arrangement. In fact, they say this is the only way then can operate, as they must have time in which to do their farmwork.

Over the years I have made a good living operating under the present system, but as I only went to the fifth grade in school, I do not have the education to keep time, make reports, and do the other things which would be required if the 12-man exemption was removed. If it becomes necessary for me to employ someone to do this, it would mean that I would have to go out of my present business and seek other employment. At my age, and with my education, it would be hard for me to find anything which I could do.

At the present time I am independent, I have worked hard over the years, am thoroughly familiar with pulpwood operations, and I would hate to give this up and have to start out looking for something new. If the 12-man exemption is removed, I am afraid that is what I would have to do.

I know lots of other small operators who do business as I do, and they, too, would lose their independence and their means of earning a living, just as I would.

Senator CLARK. Will you proceed, Mr. Waldo.

STATEMENT OF HENRY C. WALDO, DIRECTOR, NORTHEASTERN LOGGERS ASSOCIATION, LINCOLN, N.H., ACCOMPANIED BY WILLIS F. STODDARD, BETHEL, VT.; JOSEPH MORIN, ST. JOHNSBURY, VT.; PERCY THOMPSON, TICONDEROGA, N.Y.; AND WALDO ROBINSON, BANGOR, MAINE

Mr. WALDO. Mr. Chariman, I will submit my prepared statement for the record.