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was money wasted in that campaign. I conducted it to the best of my ability; but when you realize that Senator Stephenson was a man known to be wealthy, a man who had always been in campaigns, and had in the campaigns in which he was interested expended his money liberally, and some people even said extravagantly, it is no wonder

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. You mean that he had expended his money for other people?

Mr. EDMONDS. For other people; yes, sir.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Not for himself."

Mr. EDMONDS. It is not strange that, having that reputation, for being a good spender in campaigns, men who otherwise would work for a man who was poor, for nothing, would demand pay for their services for Senator Stephenson, because they would say "He is able to pay it."

Senator SUTHERLAND. And they would demand rather more than living wages for what they did?

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes. I think you will find that is true always in campaigns, however.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. At least that has been the experience of most of us.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You have mentioned one or two men who received money, who were candidates for the legislature. Do you know of any others except those you have mentioned?

Mr. EDMONDS. No, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Or have you heard of anybody else except those mentioned?

Mr. EDMONDS. Have I heard of anybody else?

Senator SUTHERLAND. Do you remember any other man who was a member of the legislature who received any money out of this Stephenson fund?

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. You mean any man who was a candidate for the legislature. Of course, at that time there were not any of them members.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Anybody who afterwards became a member? Mr. EDMONDS. I do not recall any. I am sure I did not pay any others.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Let me ask you another question: Were you in Madison while the legislature was in session at the time and before the time that Mr. Stephenson was elected?

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. What were you doing there?

Mr. EDMONDS. I was not there at the time that Senator Stephenson was elected.

Senator SUTHERLAND. What were you doing there?

Mr. EDMONDS. I suppose I may be said to have been looking after Senator Stephenson's interests there.

Senator SUTHERLAND. How much time did you spend there?
Mr. EDMONDS. Most of the time for that three weeks.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You were there about three weeks?

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Did you talk with members of the legislature?

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Did it become apparent to you that Senator Stephenson had not a majority of the members of the legislature who were prepared to vote for him?

Mr. EDMONDS. This matter

Senator SUTHERLAND. What I mean by that is that there were several ballots cast in which he failed of election. It became apparent to you, did it not, that he did not have enough votes in the legislature under those conditions?

Mr. EDMONDS. I felt that he was legally elected in January, when the first vote was taken, and that it was a farce to continue this continual balloting every day. On the other hand, I did not know of any means or method by which that balloting might be done away with. There were not votes enough there after that day to elect him. The only possible way that he could be elected would be by reason. of the fact that some men who were voting against him, having to come up there every day to vote, would get tired of that kind of thing, and say, "Here, we might as well elect him and get through with this "; or that on some particular day all of the friends of Senator Stephenson might be there, and some of those who were opposing him might be away, and in that way he might get a majority of the

votes cast.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You had thought of that contingency.

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes; it was very close for several days, and we hoped every day that that might occur.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Was anything done by anybody else to bring about a realization of that contingency?

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes; it was done by me. I was trying my best, and all the fellows who were working with me, interested in Senator Stephenson's campaign, were looking after every man who was a friend of Senator Stephenson so that he would be there every day.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Finally, when Senator Stephenson was elected, I understand it is said that three members of the legislature, three Democrats who were opposed to him, absented themselves on that day. Do you know anything about that?

Mr. EDMONDS. No, sir. That is, I know it in the way that you do, having heard it.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You know that has been said?

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes.

Senator SUTHERLAND. But you know nothing about that yourself? Mr. EDMONDS. No, sir. I had left Madison; I had not been in Madison at that time for, I think, three weeks.

Senator SUTHERLAND. That was after you left?

Mr. EDMONDS. Yes, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You knew nothing about the circumstances, then?

Mr. EDMONDs. No, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Nothing about the charge that they had been paid to absent themselves on that day?

Mr. EDMONDS. No, sir; I know absolutely nothing of that.
Senator SUTHERLAND. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. The hour of 5 o'clock having arrived, the committee will stand adjourned until to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock.

Before adjournment is had, I desire that Mr. Sacket, who was not present earlier to-day, but who was subpoenaed to be here, and who is now present, be sworn.

(Mr. Sacket appeared and the chairman administered the oath.)

The CHAIRMAN. The witnesses that have been examined to-day will remain for to-morrow, and the witnesses who have been subpoenaed for to-morrow are H. J. Brown, S. L. Perrin, H. H. Morgan, C. C. Wayland, and Henry Overbeck. All of the witnesses who have been subpoenaed and have not been examined to-day, of course, will remain, and those who have been examined will also remain, as the committee may desire to ask further questions. Witnesses will remain in attendance until excused.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. That will be the general rule?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. So that we can all know that until excused the witness will be here to be reached by any of us.

Mr. BLACK. Mr. Chairman, we have here a copy of a letter from the attorney general to Senator Stephenson in relation to the filing of his expense account, which I will hand to the reporter to have it incorporated in the record.

Senator POMERENE. Do you know that to be an exact copy?
Mr. BLACK. It was furnished to me as an exact copy.

Senator POMERENE. By whom?

Mr. BLACK. By Senator Stephenson's secretary. I have not the original, but we can produce that if necessary.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Let it go into the record. It can be compared with the original hereafter, and if it is not an exact copy, be corrected.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. If it turns out that it is not an exact copy, we will have the record corrected to agree with the original.

(The letter is as follows:)

[Copy.]

OFFICE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL,

Madison, Wis., September 28, 1908.

Hon. ISAAC STEPHENSON,

Marinette, Wis.

DEAR SIR: In your letter of the 23d instant you say that you "understand that a candidate for United States Senator is not under the law obliged to file an expense account until after the legislature elects in January," and you ask for my interpretation of the law.

Section 1 of chapter 502, Laws of 1905, is in part as follows:

"Every person who shall be a candidate before any convention or at any primary or election to fill an office for which a nomination paper or certificate of nomination may be filed shall, within thirty days after the election held to fill such office, make out and file with the officer empowered by law to issue the certificate of election to such office or place a statement in writing, subscribed and sworn to by such candidate, setting forth in detail each item in excess of five dollars in money or property contributed. disbursed, expended, or promised by him and, to the best of his knowledge and belief, by any other person or persons for him or in his behalf, wholly or in part, in intending to secure or in any way in connection with his nomination to said office or place, or in connection with the election of any other person at such election, the day when and the persons to whom and the purpose for which all such sums were paid, expended, or promised, and the total aggregate sum paid, expended, or promised by such candidate in any sum or sums whatever. Such statement shall also set forth that the same is as full and explicit as affiant is able to make it."

The question here presented is this: Which election-the primary, the November election, or the election by the legislature-is the election "held to fill such office"? The primary-election law is entitled "An act to provide for party nominations by direct vote." The primary is not an election for the purpose of filling an office. It is an election for the purpose of choosing party candidates, and no offices except precinct committees are filled at the primary. The November election is not an election held to fill the office of United States Senator. That office is not filled until an election is held in the legislature.

I am, therefore, of the opinion that you are correct in your understanding that a candidate for the office of United States Senator is not required to file an account of his expenses in the primary campaign until after the election by the legislature in January.

Very truly, yours,

F. L. GILBERT, Attorney General.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I desire to read now two letters from a letter-press copy book, the first letter in which is dated February 3, 1905, and the last letter in which is dated July 1, 1909. This is Senator Stephenson's personal letter-press copy book.

The first letter that I want to put into the record reads as follows, and is found on page 807 of this letter book:

Hon. J. A. FREAR,

Secretary of State, Madison, Wis.

MARINETTE, Wis., September 23, 1906.

DEAR SIR: I have not received any blanks for filing expenditures in senatorial canvass for nomination at the primary. Will you kindly send me some at once? What is the law in this matter, and when must I file my papers in order to comply with the law? Kindly post me in the matter.

Yours, truly,

P. S.-Please let me know what the law is in my case. I do not have to report until the legislature acts.

ISAAC STEPHENSON.

I have been told that

I. S.

Under the same date, on page 808, immediately following, on the next page, is the following:

Hon. FRANK L. GILBERT,

Attorney General, Madison, Wis.

MARINETTE, Wis., September 23, 1908.

DEAR SIR: I understand that a candidate for the U. S. Senate is not, under the law, obliged to file expense account until after the legislature elects in January. Kindly let me hear from you regarding this law.

Yours, truly,

ISAAC STEPHENSON.

The attorney general's letter, as I understand it, was in answer to this inquiry.

Senator POMERENE. Was there a reply to the letter to the secretary of state?

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I have not seen any. I do not know whether there was or not. Do you remember whether there was, Senator? Senator STEPHENSON. I do not remember.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I do not know how that may be.

Senator POMERENE. I thought if there was it might be well to put it in and make the record complete.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. The Senator says he does not remember. I do not know how it was.

At 5 o'clock and 4 minutes p. m. the subcommittee adjourned until to-morrow, Tuesday, October 3, 1911, at 10 o'clock a. m.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1911.

FEDERAL BUILDING,

Milwaukee, Wis.

The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock a. m.
Present: Senators Heyburn (chairman), Sutherland, and Pome-

rene.

Present also: Mr. C. E. Littlefield, Mr. W. E. Black, and Mr. H. H. J. Upham, counsel for Senator Isaac Stephenson.

TESTIMONY OF E. A. EDMONDS-Continued.

E. A. EDMONDS, the witness under examination at the time of adjournment yesterday, resumed the stand and testified as follows: The CHAIRMAN. Before adjournment yesterday you were requested to make some examination of an expense account. Have you done so? Mr. EDMONDS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What have you to say now?

Mr. EDMONDS. I believe I was asked to check over Exhibit 49 in the senatorial primary investigation and pick out such items as I have some recollection of.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, now, and state the items and what your recollection of them is in regard to their payment and the purposes for which they were paid.

Mr. EDMONDS. In some instances I have quite a distinct recollection, and in others some recollection.

The CHAIRMAN. Pick out the items and state your recollection.

Mr. EDMONDS. The item of $200, July 18, Dane County, organizing. That item is found on page 588 of the printed record of the senatorial investigation, in Exhibit 49. This was the first money, I believe, paid to Mr. Ames, our organizer in Dane County.

The CHAIRMAN. I asked you about that item yesterday. What further recollection have you to-day than that which you had yesterday? Mr. EDMONDS. None, except that he was employed by me to look after the interests of Senator Stephenson and organize in Dane County. The special organizing that he was to do was left largely to his judgment, since he was represented to me as a man well known in the county and well acquainted with the conditions there.

The CHAIRMAN. You have a distinct recollection of that employment, have you?

Mr. EDMONDS. I have a distinct recollection of meeting Mr. Ames and employing him for that purpose; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I will examine yesterday's record to see how fully we went into that.

Mr. EDMONDS. He was paid, at different times, amounts as called for.

Mr. BLACK. What is the date of that item?

Mr. EDMONDS. July 18, on page 588. It is on page 588 of the printed record of the primary investigation.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any clear recollection this morning ast to the conversation that was had between you and Mr. Ames when you paid him the money, as to the purpose for which it was to be expended?

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