The CHAIRMAN. He was a member of the legislature that elected Senator Stephenson? Mr. SACKET. He was. The CHAIRMAN. And he was then a candidate? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Did you pay him that money? Mr. SACKET. I did. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a conversation with him at the time you paid it to him? Mr. SACKET. I did not. The CHAIRMAN. How did you pay it to him? Mr. SACKET. In the form of a cashier's check. The CHAIRMAN. Was he present? Mr. SACKET. No, sir; it was mailed to him. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a conversation with Wellensgard during the campaign? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. At what time? Mr. SACKET. In the very early part of the campaign. I can not give the date. The CHAIRMAN. He was then a candidate for the legislature, was he? Mr. SACKET. Yes: was or was to be. The CHAIRMAN. You knew that he was, or was to be? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That was before you gave him the money, was it? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You gave him this money on September 5? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That was after the primaries? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What did you give him the money for? Mr. SACKET. To reimburse him for money which he expended in the interest of Senator Stephenson. The CHAIRMAN. What money had he expended? Mr. SACKET. He had expended $250.80. The CHAIRMAN. What had he expended it for? Mr. SACKET. I do not remember the items, but he filed an itemized statement at that time, which was afterwards filed with the joint committee at Madison, and appears, I think, in one of these volumes. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, it appears in one of these volumes. It appears at page 911 and following, $250. That is the same item, is it? Mr. SACKET. That I believe to be a copy of the bill that he sent me, for which I sent him a check of $250.80. The CHAIRMAN. I will read this into the record, from page 911 of the proceedings before the joint committee: Mr. RODNEY SACKET, Milwaukee, Wis. BERLIN, WIS., September 3, 1908. DEAR FRIEND: Inclosed please find my bill against Stephenson. I wish you would please see that they get it. I haven't put in anything for cigars or what little I spent. Please let me hear from you. I beat Hitchcock by 347 majority. Yours, truly, C. C. WELLENSGARD. Exhibit 62 received in evidence, and is in words and figures following, to wit: 28. Paid to C. Rosebrook, town of St. Marie, and 4 men. 25.00 5.00 5.00 (Indorsed :) Paid, 9/5/08. C. C. Wellensgard. Mr. SACKET. That is the account to which I referred. The CHAIRMAN. These items commence on July 5, and the first item is "livery to Princeton, $3." Where is Princeton? Mr. SACKET. Princeton is about 16 miles south of Berlin. The CHAIRMAN. Berlin is the place in which Mr. Wellensgard lives, is it? Mr. SACKET. Berlin is the city in which Mr. Wellensgard lives. Mr. SACKET. Green Lake County. The CHAIRMAN. Is his district included in Green Lake County? Mr. SACKET. Green Lake County was his district. The CHAIRMAN. Berlin is in the county in which this candidate resided, is it? Mr. SACKET. Partially within that county and laps over into Waushara County. 5.00 5.00 15.00 2.50 4.00 3.00 1.00 5.00 5.00 5.00 5.00 5.00 5.00 5.00 250. SO The CHAIRMAN. On the 28th of August there is an item "paid out to help George Burlingame and four men, $30." Do you know what they were helped about? Mr. SACKET. I do not presume to understand this account of Mr. Wellensgard. Senator POMERENE. This is in your home, is it not? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Is the town of Manchester in Green Lake County? Mr. SACKET. I think it is. The CHAIRMAN. All the towns mentioned in this itemized account are in that county? Mr. SACKET. Green Lake or Waushara County. Mr. Wellensgard did something in Waushara County. The CHAIRMAN. I see "for automobile on election day, $15." Did Senator Stephenson carry that county? Mr. SACKET. I think he did. That is my recollection of it. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know by what majority or plurality he carried it? Mr. SACKET. If I remember correctly, it was a small plurality— one or two hundred; something of that kind. The CHAIRMAN. Was it by as much as 347 majority? Mr. SACKET. As I member it, it was not as much as that. The CHAIRMAN. Then the canvasser had a larger majority than the party canvassed for, did he? Mr. SACKET. I believe he did. The CHAIRMAN. What services do you think he really performed for Senator Stephenson? Mr. SACKET. I believe he actually expended the money for the items mentioned in his statement. The CHAIRMAN. Then there is an item of $156, which is made up of three items, under the head of "General," after the Wellensgard item. Do you know what those sums were paid for on September 5? Mr. SACKET. I have no recollection of those items. The Sexton item, as I remember it, was a settlement with Mr. Sexton covering the expense account or salary, or both. The CHAIRMAN. The Sexton items amount to $523.98, commencing July 20 and running up to and past the primary. Do you know what the money was paid to Sexton for in these items and what he did for it? Mr. SACKET. I know the arrangement that I made with Mr. Sexton. The CHAIRMAN. What was the arrangement with Mr. Sexton? Mr. SACKET. To travel throughout the State in the localities where he thought he could do the most good and to promote Mr. Stephenson's interests in any and every way, so long as he kept within the law. The CHAIRMAN. Was he to be the judge of what was within the law? Mr. SACKET. As far as I was concerned, yes. The CHAIRMAN. You left that to your representative? Mr. SACKET. I did. The CHAIRMAN. Did you talk with him as to what was within the law or what the provisions of the law were? Mr. SACKET. I have no recollection of any such conversation. Mr. SACKET. A man whose home was in Waushara County, my home, a man I had known— The CHAIRMAN. What was his business? Mr. SACKET. I think at that time he was not in any business. The CHAIRMAN. What has he done? Mr. SACKET. If I remember it correctly, his regular line of business was that of a traveling salesman. The CHAIRMAN. Now, there is W. J. Fossbinder, $61. Have you knowledge as to what that money was paid for? Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Did the chairman omit J. Humphrey, $60.15? The CHAIRMAN. That is in the combined item he has just testified about. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Excuse me for the suggestion, but he has not testified about the item of $60.15. The CHAIRMAN. Did I understand you to say that you only know as to the Hayes item? Mr. SACKET. I said I did not know as to the Hayes item. The CHAIRMAN. But that you did as to the Sexton item? The CHAIRMAN. How about the Humphrey item? Mr. SACKET. I do not remember about the Humphrey item. The CHAIRMAN. The next is the Keyes item. We have been through the account of Mr. Keyes. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes; he testified about Keyes. The CHAIRMAN. Now we will pass down to Mr. Fossbinder; $61. Mr. SACKET. My recollection of that item is that Mr. Fossbinder did some work in the nature of hanging posters and other campaign work during the campaign for Mr. Stephenson, and sent in his bill at the close of the campaign, which amounted to $61, and I paid it. The CHAIRMAN. You do not know what he expended the money for, do you? Mr. ŠACKET. I think he rendered a bill at that time. I do not recollect at this time exactly what it was for. The CHAIRMAN. But he was employed and paid the money for going out among the electors and canvassing for Senator Stephenson; is that right? Mr. SACKET. I did not employ Mr. Fossbinder. I think I remember paying him, on his statement of what he had done. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Which is just as you have described? Mr. SACKET. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Now the item of $30 for W. B. Jones. What was that money paid for? Mr. SACKET. I have no recollection of that item. Senator POMERENE. Is there a Picket County? Mr. SACKET. I know of a little station by the name of Picket, on the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul Road, between Ripon and Oshkosh. The CHAIRMAN. On September 15 you paid O. T. Johnson $57.76. What was that for? Mr. SACKET. I have no recollection of that item. The CHAIRMAN. Now, that completes the examination in regard to each item down to the expenses in Milwaukee County on page 596, and the hour of adjournment having arrived, the committee will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock to-morow morning. At 4 o'clock 30 minutes p. m. the subcommittee adjourned until to-morrow, Saturday, October 7, 1911, at 10 o'clock a. m. SATURDAY, OCTOBER 7, 1911. FEDERAL BUILDING, Milwaukee, Wis. The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock a. m. Present: Senators Heyburn (chairman), Sutherland, and Pomerene. Present, also: Mr. C. E. Littlefield, Mr. W. E. Black, and Mr. H. H. J. Upham, counsel for Senator Isaac Stephenson. The names of George W. Dart, R. L. Morse, L. W. Thayer, Arthur Wilcox, A. I. Hulbert, and Le Roy E. McGill were called. Mr. Morse, Mr. Wilcox, and Mr. Hulbert responded to their names, and the oath was administered to them by the chairman. TESTIMONY OF RODNEY SACKET Resumed. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sacket, on yesterday we had finished examining you upon the items in the account down to the item of "A. M. Jones, $150," on September 15, which is on page 596 of Exhibit 49. The next heading is, "Expenses in Milwaukee County as reported by W. R. Knell. Bills paid by check." Have you that statement before you? Mr. SACKET. I have; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Have you personal knowledge of the payment of each and all of the items contained in that statement, aggregating $2,864.05? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. Have you personal knowledge as to the payment of any items in that statement? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. You do not know to whom they were paid, or for what purpose? Mr. SACKET. Not of my own knowledge; no, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Who has knowledge of those payments, and the purpose for which the money was expended? Mr. SACKET. W. R. Knell, who made the report. The CHAIRMAN. Where does he reside? Mr. SACKET. Milwaukee was the place of his residence the last time I knew. The CHAIRMAN. What was his business? Mr. SACKET. He was sheriff of Milwaukee County at that time. The CHAIRMAN. I will ask the secretary to see if we have Mr. Knell's name down for subpoena. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. He is on your list for next week. You have him down here for Tuesday. The CHAIRMAN. The secretary reports to me that we have. |