licher, did he tell you that he needed that money for the expenses of your campaign?

Senator STEPHENSON. Who?

The CHAIRMAN. Puelicher.

You gave a check to him.

Senator STEPHENSON. I presume he did.

The CHAIRMAN. Check No. 6.

Senator STEPHENSON. I presume he did. Mr. Edmonds was calling on him. Mr. Puelicher and Mr. Van Cleve were my bankers, if you please, or treasurers.

The CHAIRMAN. Did it not occur to you that a call for $30,000 at that time was rather an unusual demand in election expenses?

Senator STEPHENSON. He probably did not pay it all to Mr. Edmonds at one time. Mr. Edmonds called at different times for it, I presume.

The CHAIRMAN. Eight days before he had received $10,000 and a few days afterwards he received $15,000 more. Were you not put upon inquiry as to the character of the expenditure that was being made in your behalf by the call for such large sums of money?

Senator STEPHENSON. I thought it was spending a good deal of money. They thought I had it, and they wanted it, I guess; some of it.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I do not hear what you say, Senator. A little louder.

Senator STEPHENSON. I thought it was calling for a good deal of money, but, of course, I did not know what he wanted it for, and I had confidence in him and in my treasurers, two treasurers; I had absolute confidence then and now, and I did not know anything about the detail or how they were using it, and did not know any of the time until they made their report.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever ask them how they were using these sums of money?

Senator STEPHENSON. My cashier talked with them how much it was costing, but not to any particular item.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you remember the date of the primary election?

Senator STEPHENSON. The first Tuesday in September.

The CHAIRMAN. What day of the month was that?

Senator STEPHENSON. I am sorry I can not answer you, because I pride myself on day and date, time and place.

Senator POMERENE. Does counsel know the date?

Mr. BLACK. The 1st of September. I think.

Senator STEPHENSON. The 1st of September, was it not, this year? Mr. BLACK. The 2d day of September.

Senator STEPHENSON. It was the first Tuesday in September.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you not put upon inquiry upon September 3. the day after the primaries, when you were called upon for a check for $13.500?

Senator STEPHENSON. No.

The CHAIRMAN. That did not seem out of the ordinary to you? Senator STEPHENSON. They called for it, and I gave it to them. I had confidence in them; I could not ask them what it was for. It is for Mr. Edmonds to show, perhaps, what he did with it now.

The CHAIRMAN. On October 10, more than a month after the primaries, and after you had been nominated by a plurality vote, you gave Puelicher $3,700 after the legislative ticket had been nominated; what did you give him that sum for?

Senator STEPHENSON. I can not tell you that now.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you not inquire what he wanted such a sum for?

Senator STEPHENSON. He may have said what he wanted it for, but I do not know. He did not put it in writing to me. I had absolute confidence in him, as I say, now and then. He wanted it for something I do not now know what; I could not say.

The CHAIRMAN. On November 7 you gave a check to J. Earl Morgan for $2.550?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What was that for?

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, in the campaign he-Winnebago County, and I think maybe did some work in Waupaca County. The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by "work"?

Senator STEPHENSON. To get out the voters and circulate documents.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, at the general election?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes; that is, the general election, and the primaries, too, I guess; both included; both included, the primary and the I mean the primary election; yes.

The CHAIRMAN. This is two months after the primary.

Senator STEPHENSON. He did not make his bill. He got his money. He is my son-in-law, and he has got money enough of his own, and I suppose he did not send his bill to me until he got ready.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. What were they? Was that relating to the primary election?

Senator STEPHENSON. I think he did some work during the primary and during the general election. That is, that would be my impression now. In other words, I do not know much about the general election or the general primary; I left it to others.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you at the State capitol during the legislative session at the time of your election?

Senator STEPHENSON. At the capitol?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Senator STEPHENSON. I was only in Madison on the 16th of February and gave my evidence there in the forenoon and afternoon; the 16th day of February, 1909; that is all.

The CHAIRMAN. You were not there again during the session?
Senator STEPHENSON. No; at no time.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you pay any person any money in connection with your campaign between the 2d day of September and the day of the general election for the purpose of influencing or working for you with the members of the legislature?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir; not to my knowledge; not a cent. The CHAIRMAN. Did you pay or authorize to be paid any money to any member of the legislature for voting for you for United States Senator?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir; I never did that.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you pay or authorize the payment of any money to any member of the legislature for absenting himself or refraining from participating in the ballot?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir; I did not.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of three members having absented themselves-three members who, had they been present, would have voted against you; do you know of that fact?

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. One moment, may it please the subcommittee. I wish to interpose a formal objection here.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think any objection will lie to a question by any member of the committee.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. It is not formal. It is simply so that the record may show that our attitude is consistent. Of course, the chairman will bear with me, I trust, a moment

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. It is to show that our record is consistent with reference to the legal situation. I would like to have the record show that we object to the introduction of any testimony in relation to the election of a United States Senator subsequent to the 26th of January, 1909, when we contend the Senator was elected. And in connection with that, perhaps, I ought to say that the journal of the house shows, and we will introduce that before we get through, that on the 27th, when they first met in joint convention, a specific protest was made by a senator against any further proceedings, upon the ground that an election had already taken place; and on every day thereafter when the joint convention occurred, for the purpose of the election of a United States Senator, the same protest was made. Now, of course, the subcommittee understands that I am not insisting on circumscribing the scope of the inquiry, but I would like to have the record show that we interposed the objections at the proper time, for the purpose of maintaining our consistency upon the legal propositions.

The CHAIRMAN. The legal proposition will not be affected by the question, having been already passed upon and its status established. I think there will be no difference of opinion in regard to my statement that an objection does not lie to a question asked by a member of the committee.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Oh, I do not intimate that it does, but I desired to have the record show that when this part of the examination was reached we simply asserted our legal position and would not be understood in any way as waiving it.

Senator STEPHENSON. I will answer that question, Mr. Chairman, if you will

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I desire the question to be answered. Read the question.

(The reporter read as follows:)

Do you know of three members having absented themselves, three members who, had they been present, would have voted against you; do you know of that fact?

Senator STEPHENSON. Only through the newspapers.

The CHAIRMAN. You were not there at the time?

Senator STEPHENSON. The men I never saw, had nothing to do with

in any shape, name, or nature at all.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Senator Stephenson, I want to ask you one or two questions. How long have you known Mr. Edmonds?

Senator STEPHENSON. Oh, perhaps 15 or 20 years.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Has he been in your employ in any way? Senator STEPHENSON. NO.

Senator SUTHERLAND. What is his business; what does he do?

Senator STEPHENSON. Paper business.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Has he been active in politics?

Senator STEPHENSON. He was once in the legislature, from Oconto County. He afterwards was at conventions-in 1904.

Senator SUTHERLAND. How did it come about that you employed him as your manager?

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, in an earlier day, probably 25 years ago, or 30, we started a paper mill in our place, and his brother had charge of it, and also his brother-in-law, Mr. Brokaw, now dead, and I used to meet Mr. Edmonds, and I think he got a horse from me, where I raise horses, and I met him several times. He was interested with Mr. Merriman and Mr. Gram. Mr. Gram was my engineer 50 years in one of our mills, and they were in with him at Oconto Falls, and I used to meet him occasionally. Then on my yacht, when we

were

Senator SUTHERLAND. I do not care about the detail. Did you seek him out or did he seek you?

Senator STEPHENSON. What?

Senator SUTHERLAND. Did he come to you and ask employment or did you seek him?

Senator STEPHENSON. No; I met him about that time, just after I announced myself as a candidate, and talked with him, and then I asked him if he could take charge of it, and he came to Milwaukee and met Mr. Van Cleve and Mr. Peulicher, and they talked the matter over, and they thought he would be a good man, and he took charge of the campaign.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Do I understand, then, that you suggested to him that he should become your manager?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes; I think that is true.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You made the first suggestion with reference to that?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. He did not offer his services to me. I think, in talking the matter over, I thought that he would be a good man, as his reputation was good, and he is connected with some of our best men in business.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Did you make any suggestion to him about compensating him for his services?

Senator STEPHENSON. No.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Or he to you?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Was there ever any suggestion of that kind as you went along?

Senator STEPHENSON. No; never.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Was he compensated?

Senator STEPHENSON. I do not know whether he was or not. I think I do not know whether I paid him anything or not, or Whether he paid himself, or otherwise; I do not know that.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Did you pay him any money for the purpose of compensating him?

Senator STEPHENSON. I gave him $5,000 for his own, for to do what he pleased with, and he spent it in the canvass, as I understand, and he put some back to me now. I can't tell what

Senator SUTHERLAND. How long was he working for you-several months altogether?

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, might say August and September, and I guess that is all that he worked, maybe.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Two months, you mean?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes; or more. He probably-and when the legislature was in session I do not know whether he was there or not. Senator SUTHERLAND. Was he devoting his entire time to it? Senator STEPHENSON. I think most of his time; yes.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You gave him the first check of $5,000 in July; was that the time you made the employment?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes.

Senator SUTHERLAND. And

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Well, the Senator will excuse me. That is the only check.

Senator STEPHENSON. That is the only check I gave him direct. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. That he gave Edmonds.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Well, you gave him the check?

Senator STEPHENSON. I did not give him that for service, but he wanted it so that he could get it if he needed it in the absence of P'uelicher. Mr. Puelicher was cashier of the Marshall & Ilsley Bank, and he travels a good deal and was not always in the bank.

Senator SUTHERLAND. NOW, I do not remember whether you answered my question. Was he devoting his entire time to your interests?

Senator STEPHENSON. I think most of it; yes; I think most of his time.

Senator SUTHERLAND. You do not know whether he was compensated for it or not?

Senator STEPHENSON. No: I do not. I do not. I do not think he was, to any-I do not know that he was to any extent.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Why was he doing it?

Senator STEPHENSON. What?

Senator SUTHERLAND. Why was he rendering this service to you? Senator STEPHENSON. Oh, I have a good many friends in this State that would do almost anything, as far as service is concerned. Senator SUTHERLAND. Was he sufficiently close to you that he would put in two or three months of his time without any compensa

tion?

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, that I could not say. I do not know whether he paid himself anything or not.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Is he a wealthy man?

Senator STEPHENSON. No: not-well, to a certain extent; yes. He was in a good deal of business then. I do not know what his wealth is.

Senator SUTHERLAND. He was in business at the time?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. To a certain extent; yes; had been in more, but he was relieved. I guess; his brother and others relieved him at that time.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Did he make you any statement as to what he had done with the $5,000?