Senator ANDERSON. Has it not been determined that it is not a question of feasibility on the dam? The reservoir has to be there to regulate streamflow, doesn't it?

Mr. DEXHEIMER. Yes, sir.

Senator ANDERSON. So it is not a question of feasibility on the dam. You do not prove feasibility on a single dam, do you? If so, we would throw out a good many of the ones in this project, wouldn't we? Mr. DEXHEIMER. Yes.

Senator ANDERSON. Can you determine feasibility of Curecanti just on that dam alone?

Senator MILLIKIN. Senator Anderson, may I suggest that you state what you want to have in the bill?

Senator ANDERSON. I want the Navaho Dam put in the bill as an initial project, as the House put in the Curecanti Dam and as we have the Glen Canyon Dam and Echo Park Dam. The Navaho Indians in the first place feel that they have rights in this matter.

Senator MILLIKIN. Now, Mr. Dexheimer, why cannot the Navaho Dam be put in the bill in accordance with Senator Anderson's suggestion?

Mr. DEXHEIMER. There is no reason at all, Senator. It could be put in on that provisional basis the same as others. There is only one point I would like to make, and that is the question of what we are going to do with the water after we build the dam.

Senator MILLIKIN. Thank you very much.

Senator ANDERSON. We can suggest what to do with the water after we get the dam.

Senator MILLIKIN. I suppose your arguments will be persuasive on that point.

Senator ANDERSON. Mr. Chairman, if we could get some sort of agreement to leave the Navaho Dam in the bill on the basis as in your original bill, and leave the other projects on a conditional basis, then I am perfectly happy.

Senator MILLIKIN. This isn't the time for that. That will be settled in executive session. This is not the time to settle that. But has not the witness given you what you want?

Senator ANDERSON. Yes, but the trouble was that when they finished with the House hearings there had been no presentation of information on these New Mexico projects and they just proceeded to take them out of the House bill on the basis that there was no justification for them.

Senator MILLIKIN. Aren't you satisfied now as far as we have gone, short of a meeting of the executive committee?

Senator WATKINS. Yesterday we put in evidence the detail about this project.

Senator ANDERSON. I believe if I can ask Mr. Keesee a question which does not relate to the economic justification, it would be helpful. If these figures are available for which money has been contributed, how long would it take you to get a complete feasibility report?

Mr. KEESEE. Probably about 3 months, ready for submission to the States and the other Federal agencies?

Senator ANDERSON. May I ask, Mr. Larson, how far along are you with the area comprising the 29,000 acres of white land? Are you in a similar situation on the 29,000 acres owned by the whites?

Mr. LARSON. We are just as far along with that as the Indian Bureau is with the shiprock division, I would say.

Senator ANDERSON. I have no further questions.

Senator KUCHEL. May I inquire, among the statistical data which you presented yesterday, have you included the financial operation studies of the reservoir relative to pay out? I remember one printed form, which I do not have in front of me now. Do you have statistical information with respect to the pay-out periods of the various reservoirs?

Mr. LARSON. We have pay-out schedules for the Glen Canyon and Echo Park units of the Colorado storage project and the 11 participating projects recommended by the Secretary.

Senator KUCHEL. Those are now in the record, Mr. Larson?
Mr. LARSON. No, they are not in the record.

Senator KUCHEL. May they be placed in the record, Mr. Chairman? Mr. LARSON. Yes, sir; we have copies available for the record. Senator KUCHEL. Will they also include the projects to which Senator Anderson has referred?

Mr. LARSON. No, sir.

Senator KUCHEL. Could that be put in?

Mr. LARSEN. We have another schedule with the additional projects in the bill.

Senator KUCHEL. Including the ones to which Senator Anderson has referred?

Mr. LARSON. No, we do not have the pay-out schedule, with the Navaho Dam included.

We can prepare it, but we do not have it now.

Senator KUCHEL. Is that not a relevant fact for the committee to determine? I think that information is something that should be in the record.

Mr. LARSON. If it is information the committee wants, we can work a pay out with the Navajo Dam added.

Senator KUCHEL. I would ask, Mr. Chairman, that that information be supplied and put into the record.

Senator MILLIKIN. Can you supply it?

Mr. LARSON. We can supply it. It will take a day or two, but we can supply it and it will be put into the record.

(The following table was subsequently received for the record :)

[Units: Cols. 3 to 7, million kilowatt-hours; cols. 8 to 18, thousand dollars]

Irriga-
tion

assist-
ance

Senator MILLIKIN. That will be all for the time being.

Please hold yourself available.

The next witness is the Honorable Norman W. Barlow, president of the Green River Development Co. and assistant interstate stream commissioner for Wyoming.

Is the gentleman in the room?

The next witness is the Honorable Joseph L. Budd, assistant Colorado River commissioner for Wyoming.

Senator ANDERSON. You know that old story, if nobody else has anything to say, we can say a few words about Los Angeles.

Mr. WILL. Mr. Chairman, the additional Wyoming witnesses were delayed. I wonder if we might proceed with the delegation from Utah?

Senator MILLIKIN. Mr. Budd is not here?

Mr. WILL. No, sir; he has not arrived yet.

Senator MILLIKIN. Our next witness is the Honorable George D Clyde, commissioner of interstate streams for the State of Utah. STATEMENT OF GEORGE D. CLYDE, COMMISSIONER OF INTERSTATE STREAMS FOR UTAH

Mr. CLYDE. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. It is an honor to appear before this body as a representative of the State of Utah to present its case relative to the upper Colorado River storage project.

My name is George D. Clyde. I am a civil engineer and commissioner of interstate streams for Utah, and appear here as a representative of the State of Utah.

In order to save time, Mr. Chairman, I submit for the record my formal written statement which I will now briefly summarize for the committee.

Senator MILLIKIN. It will be included in the record.

(Mr. Clyde's statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF GEORGE D. CLYDE, COMMISSIONER OF INTERSTATE STREAMS FOR UTAH, RELATING TO THE COLORADO RIVER STORAGE PROJECT AND ITS PARTICIPATING PROJECTS

My name is George D. Clyde. I am a civil engineer and commissioner of interstate streams for Utah and appear here as a representative for the State of Utah. I have spent 25 years in the field of irrigation, hydrology, and water supplies and their utilization in the 17 Western States. I am familiar with the characteristics of flow and uses of water from western streams and particularly the Colorado River.

Utah is one of the four upper division States as defined by the Colorado River compact of 1922. The only source of water in these States is the precipitation which falls upon them. That water is essential to human, animal, and plant life and basic to the welfare of these States. It is necessary to public health. It is required for the processing of raw materials. These are all consumptive uses and for such uses there is absolutely no substitute for water.