Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I think it would mean a transformation of your Newark Public Library. The State agency would have the responsibility of setting up the kind of metropolitan service to which both you and Mr. Cohen referred, which would make for a great amount of accessibility to the student. It might mean that you would have to farm out certain books which the smaller libraries could not afford and probably should not have because there would not be sufficient demand. But it would result perhaps in a considerably greater demand on your facilities because you do have a library of almost a million volumes already. Your number might be increased, your staff might be increased, so also might your control be lessened over what you now have in your library.

Mr. BRYAN. Under the State laws, in New Jersey, our board of trustees is presently in control. We receive some State aid.

The biggest problem, as I see it, is for libraries to be better supported on the various levels so that they are in a position to give this service.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Support, of course, would not necessarily mean the kind of control that you and I have just been talking about. Mr. BRYAN. That is correct.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. In other words, the kind of assistance that the Federal Government makes does not necessarily have to take this particular form.

Mr. BAILEY. The Chair enjoys this discussion here, but I remind you that we must hear a 2-minute presentation of another witness here.

Mr. Scott, do you have any questions of the present witness?
Mr. SCOTT. No, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Mr. Bryan, I received a letter dated June 19 from Roy E. Simpson, department of public instruction and director of education, department of education, in the State of California. He points out and I will quote from him:

California has the largest and fastest growing school system in the Nation. Among its serious problems is the provision of library services to meet the demand of children and young people. Inadequacy of current school library services is a handicap to our educational program. At the present time, California is building on an average of three new elementary schools every week, and three new high schools every month. Our basic book collection for each of these new schools would cost an estimated $3 million per year. In addition, 200 school librarians would be needed for even minimum staffing. He then goes on and says it would cost an estimated $11,246,755 to provide one new library book for each pupil enrolled full time in grades kindergarten through 12 in California during 1961 and

1962.

I cite this partly to show that, of course, there is a problem which needs attention; we should be doing more about providing more adequate services, but also to ask you whether your organization or you individually have given any thought to the scope of the program. In other words, Mr. Simpson is referring to public school libraries only.

Title II, I think it is, of this bill would supply $30 million a year for all public school library needs so far as the Federal Government is concerned.

Here we have some indication of the scope of the problem in one State.

Do you think that $30 million is going to begin to do the job if we once assume a broad responsibility for providing the financial assistance which is needed from some place, if not the Federal Government? Mr. BRYAN. I think there is no question that more money could be spent.

We do think that this is a fair start which will show results, which will encourage the State of California to put State money and to put more local money into this program.

It was not our thought that the Federal Government would supply the State of New Jersey or the State of California or any other State with all they need in library service.

We feel that this is a joint responsibility of the several levels of government and if the Federal Government would take some leadership, you can call this seed money-I do not know how else you might explain it incentive money for the State and local governments to do better.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Do you think matching in any case is a vital part of a program of this kind?

Mr. BRYAN. I do.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Do you think the matching should begin immediately?

Mr. BRYAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I might say that title II of this bill, I do not mean to trap you in any sense, but title II of this bill begins matching only in the second year of the program.

Mr. BRYAN. This is true. What I am saying is the need is now. Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. The need is now. I am talking about the advisability of matching.

Mr. BAILEY. I think the gentleman from New Jersey understands why we would have matching in the second year. It would give the State legislatures an opportunity to join in the enriched program and they would have at least 1 year advance notice.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. They could join in the program by having any fund otherwise to be made available held over until they did come up with the matching.

If the basic purpose of this program is to stimulate State and local effort, I think we had better begin by stimulating.

Mr. BRYAN. Generally speaking, I think this is so. I think with all matters of this kind, however, and I have personally had experience with State aid programs, that there is a logical and orderly procedure to follow, and I think this serves this purpose.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Bryan.

Mr. BAILEY. May I thank you, Mr. Bryan, for your very clear-cut statement of the position of the American Library Association and for what appears to be an excellent administration of the public library in Newark, N.J. Thank you very much.

Mr. BRYAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BAILEY. Miss Sallie Butler, director of legislation, General Federation of Women's Clubs.

Miss Butler, if you care to further identify yourself to the reporter, you may proceed,

STATEMENT OF MISS SALLIE BUTLER, DIRECTOR OF LEGISLATION, GENERAL FEDERATION OF WOMEN'S CLUBS

Miss BUTLER. I am Sallie Butler. I am the director of legislation of the General Federation of Women's Clubs, which is women, 5 million members, in this country. It is an international but it does not matter at this point, an organization that was chartered by the Congress of the United States and for cultural purposes among other things.

I would say that during the history of the General Federation, it was attributed with having helped establish 85 percent of the libraries in the rural country back in that day and I would say we continue to be interested in that particular phase although that is not all our interest. I am making a very brief statement. I am not supporting any bill but we are supporting certain principles in the bills you are considering. We feel it is well that you know how we feel.

The General Federation of Women's Clubs has long worked to extend Library Services to as many people as possible. We feel the need for education increases with each day. In this day of space exploration it is so essential to the very existence of not only the individual but also to nations.

It is truly startling when we realize that millions of our people in many small communities have no library service. When we know that many communities of 10,000 people or less have no public libraries this should be the concern of all Americans. One only needs to look at the records to see how many of our outstanding men and women in the past have come from small communities.

Perhaps one might be prone to say, "Well, they arrived and did not have the advantage of public libraries." But the fact remains that while the interested and inspired people might seek information and education, just to live in the space age demands greater knowledge, faster action and reaction by all the people.

Since there has long been the theory that free education was available to all in the United States, necessity requires that it be more than a theory if people are to be continually secure.

We shall not go into further detail but wish to assure this committee, because we have confidence in you people and we feel this is giving you an idea of how the women are thinking.

The General Federation fully supports a program that would bring adequate library facilities to all communities needing them. We likewise believe that library facilities are necessary for colleges and universities. We know that properly trained personnel for these libraries are essential.

We support legislation that will provide such facilities to elementary schools as well as to high schools and schools of higher learning. We would, of course, urge that proper conditions be met by State and local governments and that Federal funds be used with the utmost care, thus to place as little burden on the taxpayer as possible through careful management at all levels of government.

That is about all I have for the prepared statement.

Mr. BAILEY. Miss Butler, I want to express my deep appreciation for your presence here representing, as you do, 5 million of the outstanding women of America, members of your club.

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May I say that I appreciated back in the early fifties when I failed by two votes to pass the first library extension bill, you were in the forefront of the fight at that time.

I am glad to know that your objectives are still such that you can support a proposal of this kind.

Miss BUTLER. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, that we are in a convention at this moment. I came from that meeting and I shall take your message back to the meeting.

Mr. BAILEY. Thank you very much.

Mr. Scott, do you have any questions?

Mr. Scort. No questions.

Mr. BAILEY. Mr. Frelinghuysen?

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.

I would just like to thank Miss Butler for testifying. It is a pleasure to hear you.

Mr. BAILEY. The subcommittee will stand in recess until 9:45 tomorrow morning in this room.

(Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 9:45 a.m., Wednesday, June 27, 1962.)

LIBRARY SERVICES ACT

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 27, 1962

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

GENERAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION,
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 a.m. in room 304, House Office Building, Hon. Cleveland M. Bailey (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Bailey, Scott, and Frelinghuysen.

Mr. BAILEY The subcommittee will be in order. We will resume at this point hearing the witnesses.

Today the Chair will recognize the clerk for the purpose of offering statements for inclusion in the record.

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, we have a communication containing additional material from the librarian of the Santa Barbara, Calif., Public Library, Mr. William E. Hinchliff; a telegram from Marjorie G. Williams; a letter and accompanying statement from the National Education Association; and a letter with a suggested technical amendment from the NEA's Department of Rural Education.

Mr. BAILEY. Without objection they will be accepted for inclusion in the record.

(The documents referred to are as follows:)

CONFERENCE ON DEVEOPMENT OF LIBRARIES IN THE SANTA BARBARA REGION

HIGHLIGHTS

Place: Library of the Santa Barbara Medical Clinic.

Date: Monday evening, June 11, 1962, 8 p.m.

Chairman: Dr. Percy A. Gray, M.D., president of the Board of Library Trustees, Santa Barbara Public Library.

Speaker: Lawrence Clark Powell, dean, UCLA School of Library Service. Attendance: Thirty-five governmental, professional, educational, civic, and business leaders.

Dr. Gray opened the meeting and stated that its purpose was to discuss the strains now imposed on all types of libraries in the Santa Barbara region and to explore how each type of library might be developed most economically to its highest potential. He pointed out that libraries tend to be taken for granted; that their value is great; and that Santa Barbara leaders should consider the benefits of making this region preeminent in the range, quality, and quantity of its libraries.

William E. Hinchliff, chief librarian, Santa Barbara Public Library, then introduced the speaker, Lawrence Clark Powell, dean of the UCLA Library School. Hinchliff described Powell as one of the world's leading bookmen who as university librarian, before becoming a library educator, had been a formidable critic of inertia and the magnification of minutia in traditional library science teaching. Having built the UCLA Library to a high eminence by unorthodox globetrotting book hunts, Powell, according to Hinchliff, was now as vigorous a recruiter of future librarians as he formerly was a cornerer of fine books for UCLA.

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