and in the meantime there was a sort of unofficial supervision of that youngster by the probation office and by the district attorney.

Judge Kennedy indicated that during his supervision of that they found, particularly with the first offender, that at the end of the year, in many of these cases, the district attorney would nolle prosse the case. The youngster would have no record; he would have been rehabilitated; and he recommended very highly the consideration of a plan of this kind in other districts, because yesterday he was not able to tell us where that was being followed. That was my reason for asking this of Mr. Chandler.

Mr. CHANDLER. I do have some information on that. I can supply a table, and I will offer it for the record. I have a typewritten copy in my briefcase. But in the year 1953 there were removed from supervision under this plan of deferred prosecution 129 juveniles in the entire country.

Of those 129 there were 5 in the eastern district of New York; that is Brooklyn. It is a practice which is not used extensively.

I have two thoughts about it. Believing as I do, that it is desirable that cases of juveniles ordinarily where conditions are right, be sent back to the communities to be handled there, I think that the plan of deferred prosecution stands sometimes in the way of diversion, when diversion might well be used.

Mr. HANNOCH. Judge Kennedy pointed out yesterday that there was no legal authority for doing it; that, he felt, might have been one of the reasons why it was not so widely held. If you think it has any value, would you recommend that necessary legislation so as to permit it to be carried into effect?

Mr. CHANDLER. I am sorry to have to state here something that the chairman of the committee understands; that as a representative of the Judicial Conference of the United States, I am not in a position to express opinions on large questions of policy.

But just this I would say: that deferred prosecution is really supervision under the direction of the United States Attorney.

As an alternative to it, if the case was thought to call for extended supervision, I think it is a very fair question whether it would not be better to have that supervision carried on by the probation officer, under the direction of the court, which is created for that purpose.

I know there is this question in the record from which deferred prosecution saves the offender, but after all, people know pretty well that juvenile delinquency is not classed as a criminal offense.

Probably I should not express an opinion. I think you can see the way my mind is working, but the question of policy of whether the law should be amended is one on which I should have to consult. I don't want to seem to avoid meeting real issues.

The point is that the law provides that I shall perform my various duties under the supervision and direction of the Judicial Conference of the United States.

Mr. HANNOCH. And you want to stay there?

Mr. CHANDLER. And when the question of legislation is involved, it is expected I will consult the conference before expressing an opinion.

Mr. HANNOCH. Do your statistics show anything on the subject of runaways which was brought to our attention yesterday?

I think it was Mr. Bennett who said yesterday that one of the problems the Federal authorities have is the matter of runaway children, not runaway from institutions, but running away from homes, and that there is a very great difficulty in providing funds to get them home; that the problem has now come in many of the Federal districts where they do not know what to do with these boys, and in order to provide funds to send a boy home, they find it necessary to convict him of a crime. Having convicted him of a crime, the judge assigns him to the Department of Justice; the Department of Justice tells the marshal to spend $20 to send the boy home and the boy is then on probation.

Do you have any statistics as to how many kids are being convicted just for that reason?

Mr. CHANDLER. No, I would not have. If the child is merely a runaway and has not committed a crime, I certainly would have no hesitation in saying that it does seem wrong.

Mr. HANNOCH. Oh, they find a crime; he rode in a car from one State to the other. He may not have intended to steal it, but he just took a ride. You have no statistics that will show as to how many cases there are?

Mr. CHANDLER. Of course, Mr. Bennett offered statistics, I have seen the tables he put in, of the number of offenders against the act which prohibits the interstate theft of automobiles. I don't know what proportions were juveniles.

But the statistics that we have would not show how many there were who were mere runaways, without the commission of a crime. Mr. HANNOCH. There would not be much doubt in your mind that youngsters who were convicted, just so someone would pay their fare home, should be entitled to a Presidential pardon?

Mr. CHANDLER. I would not question that for a minute.

On the other hand, even though we have the kindliest disposition for juveniles who run away, if in order to run away they steal a car, I think you have an offense; at least, from my standpoint that is an offense.

Mr. HANNOCH. You would be interested to know that Mr. Bennett thought most of these fellows weren't stealing cars; they were just taking a joyride from one State to the other. That is all I have. Chairman LANGER. What percentage of these juvenile delinquents are girls?

Mr. CHANDLER. Might I ask Mr. Sharp, who is head of the Probation Division, to come up here?

Chairman LANGER. Certainly.

Mr. CHANDLER. It is a very small proportion of that. We can supply that information.

What production of juvenile offenders brought into Federal courts are girls?

Mr. SHARP. I will have to depend on Mr. Bennett for those figures. We don't have those figures, but it is a very small percentage.

Chairman LANGER. You can get in touch with Mr. Bennett and get that for the record?

Mr. HANNOCH. Yes, sir.

(The information requested was received at a later date, marked "Exhibit No. 27," and reads as follows:)

EXHIBIT NO. 27.—Federal juvenile offenders disposed of during the fiscal year 1953, by sex and disposition 1

1 Compiled by the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

Includes placements in Federal institutions, State and local training schools, private institutions, and foster homes. Includes 178 released under "deferred prosecution plan."

Chairman LANGER. Are any of these probation officers women, or are all of them men?

Mr. CHANDLER. A few women, sir. There has been a female probation officer in the southern district of New York for a good many years. There is a a woman who is a probation officer, the chief probation officer, in the southern district of Alabama, in Mobile.

There is a woman who is a probation officer in the Southern District of California. But there are very, very few. Almost all of the probation officers, Federal probation officers, are men.

Chairman LANGER. Mr. Chandler, do you know the average salary of these probation officers?

Mr. CHANDLER. I can tell you what the starting salary is. Probation officers now are in grade 7 when they are appointed, and the starting salary in that grade is $4,205 a year. They go up by gradation until they get to the top.

For probation officers who are chiefs

Chairman LANGER. You say they start at $4,000?

Mr. CHANDLER. $4,205.

Chairman LANGER. I have no stenographer in my office that does not get more than that.

Mr. CHANDLER. Let me tell you this, that in 1940 the salaries ranged from two thousand to twenty-three hundred dollars, and it is due to the consideration of the Congress in making various appropriations, the Congress to whom this condition has been made known, which has made it possible to raise the scale substantially.

Senator, in many respects the work of a probation officer is analogous to work in educational systems. It pertains to the guidance of a person by personal counsel and help, and it involves understanding of the person.

Now, the Federal salaries, which I should be the last person to say should not be higher, do on the whole compare favorably with the salaries paid in State and local correction systems, with some exceptions always, like New Jersey and other States I can cite. They compare pretty favorably with salaries in educational systems.

I stated what the beginning salary of a probation officer is. That means an officer who does not have administrative responsibility From there on, as experience is gained, probation officers for length of service may advance to grades 9 and 10, and the chief probation officer may be in 9, 10, 11, and 12.

I would not for a minute characterize the salary system as ideal, but I have found, and I really know the Federal probation officers around the country, that the probation officer does good work if he really has a sense of calling to help his fellowmen, like a teacher who goes into it for love of the work, or in some cases, a Senator, a minister. As I say, while I do not defend the salary scale as ideal, and, of course, the salary scale of what the Congress has fixed by appropriation, I don't think is disgraceful.

Mr. HANNOCH. What are the qualifications that these men have to have that you say we pay $4,000 for?

Mr. CHANDLER. He shall be a graduate of a college; he shall have had a college education or the equivalent. He shall have had special training in personnel work for the help of others, and he shall have had experience in personnel work.

I have before me the report

Mr. HANNOCH. Just hit the high spots.

Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, I know. I merely want to point out the source of this. These are the recommendations which the Judicial Conference approved on the report of the committee.

Resolved, That the Judicial Conference recommend to the various district courts that in all future appointments of probation officers the appointee should be required to possess the following qualifications:

1. Exemplary character;

2. Good health and vigor;

3. An age, at the time of appointment within the range of 24 to 45, inclusive. 4. A liberal education, of not less than collegiate grade, evidenced by a bachelor's degree from a college of recognized standing or its equivalent;

5. Experience in personnel work for the welfare of others of not less than 2 years, or 2 years of specific training for welfare work,

(a) In the school of social service of recognized standing, or,

(b) In a professional course in a college or university of recognized standing. I also have some additional information dealing with education and experience of probation officers which I would like to submit for the record.

Chairman LANGER. Let that be exhibit No. 28.

(The information referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 28," and reads as follows:)

EXHIBIT NO. 28.-Qualifications of education and experience met at time of appointment by 292 Federal probation officers in service on June 30, 19501

During the fiscal years 1951, 1952, and 1953, a total of 42 probation officers were appointed. Their quali

Mr. HANNOCH. He also has to have either a rich father or rich wife to live with, in addition to that kind of background, does he not?

Chairman LANGER. Could you give us the probation officers, and the salaries they get, and how long they have been in the service, so that we have a complete record before this subcommittee on just exactly what salaries are at the present time in each district?

Mr. CHANDLER. Senator, we can give you that directly.

I will give that to you and give it to you within a very short time. It will not take long to prepare it.

(The information referred to was received at a later date, marked "Exhibit No. 29," and is on file with the subcommittee.)

Chairman LANGER. Any further questions, Mr. Hannoch?

Mr. HANNOCH. No, sir.

Chairman LANGER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chandler. It was very kind of you to come. We appreciate it.

Mr. CHANDLER. It goes without saying, there is not anything more important to the welfare of our country than this problem with which you are dealing. I want to be of help in any way I can.

Chairman LANGER. Mr. Davis.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give here will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Chairman LANGER. Will you state your qualifications, Mr. Davis, and your experience?

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM J. DAVIS, SECRETARY-MANAGER, NATIONAL AUTO THEFT BUREAU, CHICAGO, ILL.

Mr. DAVIS. My name is William J. Davis, secretary-manager of the
National Automobile Theft Bureau located in Chicago.
The CHAIRMAN. Give us your address in Chicago.

Mr. DAVIS. 175 West Jackson Boulevard, Chicago 4.
I am not an expert on juvenile delinquency.

Mr. HANNOCH. Mr. Davis, you have been asked to come here because the Department of Justice and the statistics made available to us indicate that more than 50 percent of the juveniles that come into the jurisdiction of the Federal courts, are concerned with the theft of automobiles.

This subcommittee has been charged with a responsibility of endeavoring to eliminate causes of juvenile delinquency. We are trying to find out what the automobile industry is doing in connection with its manufacture of cars, that would make it difficult to steal these cars. We have asked you to tell us what you know about that.

Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Hannoch, and Senator, of course I cannot speak for the automotive industry. May I tell you who I am and what I think I can speak for?

Mr. HANNOCH. You can tell us anything you want to if you think it will be of assistance to us, because if we make it impossible to steal the cars the kids will not steal them.

Mr. DAVIS. Quite so.

I have children of my own and a son. I don't want him to steal I have a personal and a business interest in this.

cars.