tend to areas of national park land, wildlife refuges, or other non forest lands that might be placed in the system; is that correct?

Mr. MASON. It would not go to park land because I will give you this reference for the record-in section 3(2) of the Federal Power Act a reservation is defined as follows:

Reservation means national forest, tribal land embraced within Indian reservations, military reservations, and other lands and interest in lands owned by the United States and withdrawn, reserved, or withheld from private appropriation and disposal under the public land laws, also lands and interests in lands acquired and held for any public purpose, but shall not include national monuments or national parks.

And that is the reason we have no jurisdiction now with respect to national parks and national monuments.

Mr. PEARL. I know; but we are not sure of the effect of section 11 of S. 174 and are glad to have your views in the record.

Mrs. PrOST. Are there further questions of Mr. Mason.

Thank you very much. We are most appreciative, Mr. Mason, of your appearance.

Mr. MASON. Thank you.

(Committee note: The information requested by the committee members follows:)

Hon. WAYNE N. ASPINALL,

FEDERAL POWER COMMISSION,
Washington, May 11, 1962.

Chairman, Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: During the hearing May 8, 1962, before the Subcommittee on Public Lands on the wilderness preservation system bills (H.R. 293, S. 174, and others), the Commission staff members who appeared for the Commission were requested to furnish certain additional information. In response, we are transmitting a table describing existing hydro projects and those under construction which would be affected by primitive areas and another table describing the potential hydro sites in primitive areas. The latter table shows that 3,006,300 kilowatts of potential capacity is located in primitive areas. As of January 1, 1962, the status of hydro development in continental United States was as follows:

The potential capacity exclusive of that affected by primitive areas is 76 million kilowatts (79 million kilowatts minus 3 million kilowatts). The capacity within primitive areas constitutes almost 4 percent of the total potential capacity.

In response to a question during the hearing, Commission staff members stated that they could not recall that any entity had ever applied for and received a license for a hydro project within a wilderness area. Upon further investigation we find that recollection to be correct but there was one application filed by the National Processing Co. on September 4, 1956, for a preliminary permit for a project (No. 2220) in what was then designated as the Bridger Primitive Area in the Bridger National Forest in Wyoming. The preliminary permit was issued May 20, 1958 and expired April 30, 1960 without the filing of an application for license. It is our understanding that the primitive area involved was redesignated as the Bridger Wilderness Area in 1960.

Please feel free to call upon me if you, or your committee, should desire further information on this matter.

Sincerely yours,

JOSEPH C. SWIDLER, Chairman.

NATIONAL WILDERNESS PRESERVATION SYSTEM-HYDRO PROJECTS EXISTING AND UNDER CONSTRUCTION AFFECTED BY PRIMITIVE AREAS

1. Pacific Gas & Electric Co.'s relief reservoir is in Emigrant Basin primitive area in the Stanislaus National Forest, Calif., and affects the following downstream developments in the Stanislaus River Basin under FPC licenses: Existing :

Donnells...

Beardsley--

Stanislaus (old).
Melones-

Tulloch---

Total---

Under construction: New Stanislaus (net) --.

Kilowatts

54, 000 10,000

28, 900 24, 300 17,000

134, 200 53, 000

2. Sacramento Municipal Utility District's proposed (licensed) Rubicon diversion and Rockbound Lake are in the Desolation Valley Primitive Area in the Eldorado National Forest, Calif., and they will affect the following downstream developments in the American River Basin under FPC license :

3. City of Seattle's Ross Reservoir (except possibly its outlet) is surrounded by the North Cascade Primitive Area in the Mount Baker National Forest, Wash., and affects the following at-site and downstream developments in the Skagit River Basin under FPC license:

4. Moon Lake Electric Association has the small existing 900-kilowatt Yellowstone development under FPC license located in the High Uintas Primitive Area in the Ashley National Forest, Utah, on Yellowstone Creek.

1 Storage.

Mr. ASPINALL. Madam Chairman, as we begin to take the testimony from the proponents and opponents, I would make this unanimous-consent request: Inasmuch as we have received numerous letters and resolutions, some of which are in favor of the legislation and some of which are opposed to the legislation, some of which are favorable to the legislation if amended, some of which it is difficult to tell just what the sender did have in mind, that we have our staff catalog all of this material and that we print at the end of the record of these hearings a list of names of those individuals who have written us letters, sent us resolutions, favoring the legislation, those opposed to the legislation, those favorable to the legislation if amended, and the names of those where we cannot tell their position, that we put that list in the record and that we place in the file all of this correspondence and the resolutions.

Mr. SAYLOR. Reserving the right to object, Madam Chairman, and I shall not object, I am just wondering what title we will put on that fourth schedule.

Mr. ASPINALL. We will be very careful so we do not hurt anybody's feelings.

Mr. SAYLOR. Further reserving the right to object, Madam Chairman, I wonder whether or not we will be able to put in an item which appeared in the Wall Street Journal of May 2. It is a rather interesting expression, I might say. I did not notice this in any other of our press releases anywhere along the line.

But at the annual stockholders meeting of the Kennecott Corp., a stockholder who owned more stock than all of the board of directors put together berated the board of directors for their efforts to defeat this piece of legislation. One James Marshall, who is a conservationist of note and also a large stockholder of Kennecott, took the corporation to task and I just wanted to make sure that while a lot of these letters that we receive came as a result of mining interests writing to them, I also am interested in knowing that in his comments Mr. Marshall said that, "Kennecott's beautiful picture, the copper hues in our great Utah mine at Bingham, Utah, you will not see a tree, a blade of grass, not a stream and no wildlife larger than a rabbit exists or could exist in the area subject to strip mining. There can be no other use in a wilderness area other than mining once mining comes in."

Mr. WESTLAND. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. SAYLOR. I do not have the time.

Mr. WESTLAND. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. ASPINALL. Let me make this statement and then I will yield. Of course you will not find a tree or more than likely a rabbit or even a prairie dog in that area. But also I think my colleague from Pennsylvania should be brought up to date. The same author whom he refers to wrote an article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal and referred to the fact that there was the possibility that there was some opposition or some support to an amendment which the Department might offer. We do not have the amendment. We do not know anything about it. Apparently this writer is going rather far in order to get news value. So I cannot say that these articles are going to be objective in their help to the committee.

Now I yield to my colleague.

Mr. WESTLAND. I was just thinking if the shareholder does not like the way the company is running its affairs, he could dispose of his stock. He is obviously very happy with the way the company is being run and I assume he is receiving their dividends; otherwise, he could dispose of the stock.

Mr. SAYLOR. With the amount of stock he has, he will, in all probability, get rid of some directors. There are two ways of handling this matter. [Laughter.]

Mrs. ProST. You have heard the unanimous consent request. Is there objection?

Hearing none, it is so ordered.

Our next witness this morning is Mr. Howard Zahniser, executive secretary and editor of the Wilderness Society. I understand he would like to bring with him Mr. Stewart Brandborg, director of special projects of the Wilderness Society.

Mr. ZAHNISER. And Mr. Michael Nadel, assistant executive secretary of the Wilderness Society. Mr. Brandborg and Mr. Nadel are highly valued associates on my staff. Mr. Nadel is our assistant executive secretary and Mr. Brandborg our director of special projects.

Mrs. PrOST. Thank you, Mr. Zahniser. For the benefit of those who are in the room I am sure you know that we have tried to evaluate the amount of time that will be at our disposal to hear both opponents and proponents. As far as possible we wish to divide the time equally and we have requested that each person adhere to a 10-minute oral presentation, and we will appreciate your keeping within that time or making your remarks even shorter if possible so we can move forward with the legislation.

I am sorry this is necessary, but we will have to start checking the clock as far as time is concerned. We will ask Mr. Pearl to keep track of the time.

You may proceed, Mr. Zahniser.

STATEMENT OF HOWARD ZAHNISER, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY AND EDITOR, THE WILDERNESS SOCIETY; ACCOMPANIED BY MICHAEL NADEL, ASSISTANT EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, THE WILDERNESS SOCIETY; AND STEWART BRANDBORG, DIRECTOR OF SPECIAL PROJECTS, THE WILDERNESS SOCIETY

Mr. ZAHNISER. Madam Chairman, and members of the subcommittee, my name is Zahniser-Z as in Zebra -A-H-N-I-S-E-R, my first name Howard. I speak here today in behalf of the Wilderness Society, a national, nonprofit, philanthropic conservation organization with some 18,000 members in all our States and in other countries. Since 1945 I have served the Wilderness Society as executive secretary and as editor of our quarterly magazine, The Living Wilderness, and other information material.

It has been my very great and precious privilege during these years to serve the cause of wilderness preservation in association and cooperation with many groups and individuals in all parts of our country, especially here in the Nation's capital. I am very glad to be here today, and I trust I may contribute to the committee's consideration of this outstandingly important legislation, the Wilderness Act.

It has been my privilege to attend all the hearings that have been held on this legislation-not only those held by this subcommittee in