compulsory school age laws but he was not qualified to make a statement because he would have no jurisdiction over these children brought in under contract. He did cite that the figures they have received from these four centers indicate they are putting considerable study and efforts, primarily in their own State. For instance, in Wisconsin they have set up a commissioner following the migratory movement in Wisconsin and what is happening to the south and north of the State. He advised in his opinion there would be 20 school-aged children to every 100 adults in this migratory movement. I think those are the figures he used, 20 school-aged children to every 100 adults.

He said with regard to American citizens of Mexican descent, of course we would have jurisdiction over them under the compulsory attendance laws.

Mrs. GREEN. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. WIER. Yes.

Mrs. GREEN. In Oregon, when we are talking about the migrant labor problem, it is my understanding that the Mexican nationals do not bring children, that it is only single men who come in.

Miss LowRY. That is right.

Mrs. GREEN. Is this true in all States?

Miss Lowry. I think that is true generally.

Mrs. GREEN. Under the contract?

Miss Lowry. Yes. The men leave their families in Mexico. But of course some have come over and stayed.

Mrs. GREEN. But in the contract program they are not families? Miss Lowry. No; they are not families.

Mrs. GREEN. So under this bill it would be only the children of the domestic agricultural migrant workers who would be covered. Miss Lowry. That is right.

Mr. WIER. I understood Dr. Flynt to say the chief centers of migrant workers are located in Florida, and another substantial group winters in Texas and moves to the other side of the Mississippi. He said in those cases where we have knowledge from experience, that these children of Mexican migrant workers-whether they are Mexican nationals or not I would have to put a question mark-but he said where these children have been given school opportunities they fell in love with it, they became very much imbued with it. The trouble is to get them to a place where they can get that education. From Texas they go clear up to Washington, and they are on the move. The groups are broken up, 10 go here, 20 here, and 10 some place else. That is the problem. I would gather the Department has a problem on its hands trying to make the determination of how best to satisfy the needs of these children.

Miss LowRY. I do not know, but we have found that in some instances where there are facilities like a school or a child care center or a well-planned activity program, that the families tend to want to come back to those places.

I think it is a problem to serve the groups that keep moving and breaking up into new groups, but it seems to me there are enough concentrations to make a beginning in reaching a sizable group of these children with at least a 6-week summer school. There are some crops in Michigan where they are on location only 3 weeks. It

is impractical to have a summer school for that short a period. But many of these families come from Texas and Florida and I think a great deal can be done from the home base angle.

I know in some areas there is a real problem in getting children to the school even though they are in the district. Transportation is a problem. But these things can be worked out, and I would think there are enough children for a long enough period of time in many areas to make a beginning on this.

Mr. WIER. My last question to Dr. Flynt was, I said to him:

Doctor, using round figures, if the Congress was to allocate $5 million to your Department tomorrow to institute a program in this field objectively to see that these children were provided an education, what steps would you take tomorrow? He said:

We are not concerned too much with the money. We have some money for this program and we are spending it. This is a long, drawn out programi. We just could not give the children an education tomorrow or next week or next year. We are watching the developments and participating in the developments but it is quite a problem.

Mr. BAILEY. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. WIER. I am all through, Mr. Bailey.

Mr. BAILEY. I think you did not go far enough. You should have said the Department is opposed to the legislation.

Mr. WIER. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. BAILEY. At this time I recognize the gentlewoman from Oregon for the purpose of introducing her State commissioner of labor.

Mrs. GREEN. Mr. Chairman, I believe he stepped out of the room. I will introduce him when he comes back.

Mr. BAILEY. Miss Lowry, we appreciate very much your testimony. It has been very helpful.

Miss Lowry. Thank you.

Mr. BAILEY. Our next witness is Mrs. Richard B. Persinger, chairman of the public affairs committee of the national board of the YWCA.

Mrs. Persinger, you may identify yourself to the reporter and proceed with your statement.

STATEMENT OF MRS. RICHARD B. PERSINGER, CHAIRMAN, PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE OF THE NATIONAL BOARD OF THE YWCA

Mrs. PERSINGER. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Mrs. Richard B. Persinger. I am chairman of the public affairs committee of the national board of the YWCA of the U.S.A. and I present this statement on behalf of the national board of the YWCA.

May I express our appreciation, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity to appear before this subcommittee in support of legislation which you are considering which would provide certain payments to assist in providing improved educational opportunities for children of migrant agricultural employees. I speak particularly in support of H.R. 10378, introduced by the chairman, and H.R. 9872, introduced by Congresswoman Edith Green of Oregon.

The YWCA has declared its purpose to be-

to build a fellowship of women and girls devoted to the task of realizing in our common life those ideals of personal and social living to which we are committed by our faith as Christians.

This is a belief in the intrinsic worth of every human being and a commitment to work toward raising standards of living and deepening the quality of life where human values may be threatened.

It is one of the YWCA's basic convictions that adequate educational opportunities for all people are essential to the growth of individuals to their fullest potentiality and consequently to the welfare of the community and the Nation. For over 35 years the statements of YWCA national conventions have reflected their belief that the Federal Government has a responsibility for education. Successive national conventions of the YWCA have voted to include in the YWCA national public affairs program an item which declares we will

Continue to work for Federal aid to public education to enable States to offer equal educational opportunities to all persons * * *.

For over a quarter of a century YWCA national conventions have expressed their concern for the plight of the agricultural laborer. The national public affairs program includes an item stating that we will

Continue to work for measures to raise the living levels of migrant workers and their families including better educational opportunities.

In communities where local YWCA's have sought to serve the youth of migrant families they have become acutely aware of the lack of education among the children and adults alike and the inadequacy of the educational facilities for them. The facts about the educational situation as they apply to migrant farmworkers are well documented by others. Much of this documentation can be supported by our local YWCA staff and volunteers who have worked cooperatively with church and other community groups to help with short-term summer educational programs and similar efforts to fill the educational gaps in the lives of children of migrant families.

It is our conviction that every young person needs to have a sense of belonging and of being a participant in meaningful activity. The chief victims of the loneliness which results from lack of community roots are the children and young people who are deprived of the sense of belonging to something and prevented from participating in those community activities which are so important to their growth and development as persons and citizens in a democracy.

The efforts of the YWCA and other voluntary organizations to include migrant youth in clubs and activities have highlighted the need for some adequate educational opportunities. One of our YWCA staff members writes, "We have had a real concern about the junior and senior high school girls in the migrant camps in our county. We wanted them to have the benefit of our Y-Teen activities and during the period they were in the local schools we made every effort to include them in our club program. We wanted them to be members of our regular clubs and not in separate groups but we found it very difficult to establish any common basis for participation. Their limited educational background was a real handicap. It made it hard

for them to communicate with the other club members and they felt sensitive about their limitations. It's difficult to see how we can really help these girls have a real feeling of belonging when they come with two strikes against them, that of a short time in the school and very limited educational equipment.'

Another association reports that they have had some migrant girls in their club. When these girls move on to other areas they are given a Y-Teen membership card to help them make a contact with a Y-Teen club in the next community.

They are run through the schools, by the way. These clubs use the school facilities and the membership is drawn from the school population.

As the staff member was explaining this to a girl who was on her way with her family to another part of the country, the girl took the card eagerly but looked at it wistfully and said, "I guess I won't get to go to school in the next place."

Such examples make us acutely aware of the need for adequate educational opportunities for children of migrant farm families. No matter how hard voluntary agencies try, they cannot dispel the sense of isolation a girl feels either in a group or outside of it when she is aware that she doesn't "fit." Our experience as a group work agency makes us know that the essential ingredient is an education that is up to the standard of education provided for other children.

Our experience also indicates that there are good educational opportunities in some communities but when girls say too frequently, "I guess I won't be going to school there" we know that there are too many places where little or no schooling is possible.

Our major experience in migrant camps has been in the area of providing recreational activities for young people and in cooperating with churchwomen in conducting educational classes. Over the years the sense of frustration about how limited this educational program is and the need for more understanding of how to work effectively with migrant youth and their families come through repeatedly in reports. A YWCA volunteer, a professional teacher, who was teaching in a voluntary school project in a migrant camp, remarked that she thought she was helpful in a limited way but it seemed like such a drop in the bucket compared with the great need and opportunity. She said she felt that despite her teacher training she did not have the special skill and knowledge that would make her effective in teaching children of migrant laborers.

Any group work agency knows that it cannot give effective service without trained personnel. Our experience indicates, too, that special skill is required to work with youth from the less privileged sectors of the population. It seems to us vital, therefore, that whatever legislation is enacted carry provision for training personnel in these particular skills to an extent that the total number of trained teachers will be increased.

We speak not only as a national group but as a member of an international body which works in 70 countries and territories. A very large portion of world YWCA work is basic education for girls and women who have not had free access to education. Participation in such projects through the world YWCA mutual service plan enables us to speak with considerable understanding of the need for special

training in a field which is clearly related to the education of many of the deprived children of migrant farm families. Actually we send American staff to other countries to do this sort of work.

For these reasons we favor the passage of H.R. 9872, introduced by Congresswoman Green, with its provision for fellowship grants which, along with other assistance provided for in the bill, would improve the educational opportunities for children of migrant agricultural employees.

Mr. WIER. Would the lady yield to me at this point?

Mrs. PERSINGER. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIER. I forgot to ask one question yesterday and I will ask either you or Miss Lowry the question.

Do any of these migrant children speak English, or are they all still in the Spanish stage?

Mrs. PERSINGER. This is certainly not true on the east coast because the main stream is from Florida to New York and Massachusetts, as I understand it. Most of these speak English. The Spanishspeaking group comes up the western part of the United States, as I understand it. Miss Lowry has done more field work in this than we have. We have cooperated in the work the churches have been doing.

Mr. BAILEY. I would like to ask the witness about how many chapters or how many installations of the YWCA do you have in the continental United States?

Mrs. PERSINGER. We have about 600 community associations. This includes in major cities the metropolitan associations and, perhaps, a decentralized association which is affiliated with the metropolitan association, but it functions as a unit.

Mr. BAILEY. Mrs. Green, do you have any questions?

Mrs. GREEN. I would like to say first of all that I am delighted when voluntary organizations such as the National Council of Churches and the YWCA come and offer testimony before the committee. We know that they do not have an ax to grind and they do not have an economic interest which they are trying to protect. But, rather, are just interested in good government and building worthwhile programs.

If I could ask you rather quickly, Mrs. Persinger, your opinion on a couple of questions I directed to Miss Lowry, I would appreciate it.

Do you think the funds should be for children of the migrant workers who cross State lines, or should there also be included the children of migrant workers that travel from one State to another?

Mrs. PERSINGER. I feel that this is a technical question, but in an untechnical way, my reaction to this, according to the experience we have had, is that it would cause vast confusion if we tried to do it on a purely interstate basis, because the migrant children within the State are nevertheless migrant children. They have the same need and it would be real discrimination it seems to me to provide for part of them in a community, where the interstate children were taken care of, but those who came from the far corner of Texas, if indeed it was Texas, were not taken care of. I cannot see it. That is purely a lay reaction.

Mrs. GREEN. Secondly, would you favor the Federal funds being paid directly to the local school agencies, or do you think they should be channeled through the State agencies?