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The Association of Village Council Presidents (AVCP) and Bethel Agency Area of Jurisdiction covers an area equivalent in the Lowen 48 to parts of:

1. Nebraska

2. Kansas 3. Colonado

4. Оклекомд

Senator GRAVEL. Our next witness is Mr. John Paul Jones, BIA Tribal Operations.

STATEMENT OF JOHN PAUL JONES, TRIBAL OPERATIONS OFFICER FOR BETHEL AGENCY, BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS

Mr. JONES. My name is John Paul Jones. I'm the tribal operations officer for Bethel agency, and originally from Chevak, Alaska. My testimony will be based on the problems that I face in implementing section 104 of Public Law 93-638.

The first problem that we faced was a definition of a tribal governing body. In the AVCP region we have 33 second-class cities, and before those 33 villages became second-or fourth-class cities and then later on became second-class cities. They were traditional or IRA towns. When that happens, the traditional or IRA status just, you know, the membership just automatically became the second-class city. And we have one first-class city and eight-well, seven IRA councils, five of whom are second-class cities also. And we have one federally recognized traditional council.

On top of that we have 13 traditional councils that have not gotten the status of second-class city or IRA council.

In addition to that we have nine village corporations which in total comprise the 57 AVCP villages.

Now, with the original definition we could have had only 15 of our villages eligible for the-one of our planning grants, for being able to contract under 93-638. But we have gotten a letter from the president of AVCP recommending us to recognize some of the secondclass cities that are composed-that are Natives and in cases where they had non-Natives on there we went and recognized the village corporations.

For the AVCP region to be recognized as a tribal governing body, from my working with the region as a whole I can foresee some problems arising from there. But if we were to recognize AVCP as a tribal governing body it would be eligible to contract directly with the BIA without, at least according to my interpretation of the act, without going to each of the villages and getting a resolution from each one of the villages. So, therefore, the problems which arise from there, you know, some of the villages now do not want to be involved in any contracting at his time.

And another problem would be the subregional groups that may want to contract or go after the planning grants as a subregional

group.

As you know, AVCP was formed to try and get the Native land claims, and at that time it was-the whole region had to unite and try and get the land claims. And then they achieved in getting the land claims. Now that people are beginning to set back to their own subregional groups. So we have KNA upriver, and we have Yugtak Corp. which comprises 18 villages up and down the Kuskokwim River, and we have 5 villages out on Nelson Island which calls themselves United Villages. And then we have LKCC, Lower Kuskokwim Coastal Corp.

Now it may be that these subregional groups may want to go after these planning grants for their own area.

Now last Thursday I had a meeting with KNA upriver, that's a subregional group, on the planning grants. And it was easy to—well, it was easy for them to come to an agreement, you know, on what they wanted, because they are a subregional group and they know what they wanted for their area.

And then yesterday we had a similar meeting down here of the rest of the villages, which took in below Kalskag down to Platinum and up the coast and up the Yukon. And my observation was that, you know, in that meeting we had yesterday was not—you know, some of the people wanted to go with the AVCP and go after the planning grants. Wanted the AVCP to go after the planning grants. But, you know, there were some subregional groups that held back, or some of the villages that held back.

So I think you're going to have to really examine what the situation is now. AVCP at one time was united to try and get the land claims. Now that they've gotten it, you know, they're more interested in their subregional groups.

Senator GRAVEL. Thank you. I have no questions. Senator Stevens. Senator STEVENS. I'm still worried about this problem of the second class cities and I'm trying to understand what it means to not recognize the second class cities for grants. What services would be performed by the second class city under a grant which you feel would be improper if you had, say, a 2 percent nonnative population. I assume that there are people in these villages, the minister perhaps in some instances, other residents who are nonnative, who might be eligible for social services for instance. If the second class city made an application for the social services, why would they-why would the presence of a small proportion of nonnative population make any difference as far as that-its recognition is concerned?

Mr. JONES. I'm sorry, Senator, I cannot really answer that question presently.

Senator STEVENS. What I'm trying to make certain is whether it's a legalistic interpretation of Federal law that forces this conclusion or a desire to exclude the nonnative population. Which is it? Do you know? Clay? I don't want to give you a question that you

Mr. JONES. I think Clay can better

Senator STEVENS. Clay, what is it?

Mr. ANTIOQUIA. Senator Stevens, we recently considered this problem and it's been our determination that second class cities that are predominantly, quote-unquote, "Native" would not be ineligible by virtue of the fact that they were second class cities. We made this determination in the positive sense that you're suggesting.

Where the cutting line is we haven't determined yet. We felt, however, that in the AVCP region here that the villages are predominantly Native, that we wouldn't have that problem. We would recognize the second class cities as really being second class cities incidentally to being traditional villages and traditionally governed communities. So it's the traditionalist of the community that we're recognizing and looking at the second class city designation as incidental. In fact in discussion with the Alaska community-department of community and regional affairs-they have concurred that this is probably appropriate that in fact they offer a more traditional village as opposed to second class city.

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