Dr. ELIOT. They deal with this question of training because you can have a very simple amendment to take care of it.

And, secondly, in the section that has to do with advisory council I would like to do something very simple. Change the word "or" to "and" so as to make certain that in that advisory council there will be both professionally trained and experienced experts in the field of delinquency and representatives of the public, not "or." This is, I imagine, just a very simple change.

And thirdly, I would like to incorporate, I would like to suggest that we incorporate, in S. 694 the general content of two subsections of Senator Humphrey's bill, S. 1009, in title V of his bill, subsections (a) and (b) and these would give to the Secretary of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare authority to make studies which would be in my opinion for the purpose of strengthening the purposes of your act on a regional or national basis.

Without such provision it seems to me there would be too little co ordination on a Federal level. And I think this would be desirable. There is also a provision in S. 1341, introduced by Senator Javits, which does the same thing in simpler language than Senator Humphrey's bill and that is found in title V, section 401(a) of Senator Javits' bill.

So it would seem to me if these minor, really relatively simple, changes could be made it would help.

Now you have raised the question and other witnesses this morning several times with regard to why Federal funds? And I would like just to speak to that myself for a moment. It seems to me that we really need desperately to have Federal funds in this picture because of the stimulating effect that Federal funds have on the State

work.

The Federal funds would necessarily give consideration to projects which have a regional or national significance, and I think your bill uses some words of that sort.

Now we live in a period when our populations are moving all over the country, families move from rural areas into cities, families move from central cities to suburban areas.

Migration is one of our great, maybe assets, or our great problems. But unless the Federal Government is in the picture some of these national and regional problems will not be given consideration. This is one of the reasons why I think that the Federal Government itself should have authority to make certain kinds of studies.

In my opinion there is very little doubt that the people of the country as represented by the large citizens' organizations really want action in this field of juvenile delinquency. One of the witnesses this morning spoke of a lack of sophistication at the local level. It really is a lack of know-how. There is a will, a strong will, to do things. I have seen this myself recently. But they need some technical guidance and leadership and the role of the Federal agencies that would be responsible for this would be to provide the technical know-how, the technical assistance.

Many years ago, the second Chief of the Children's Bureau, Grace Abbott, made this remark, that the sources of revenue-and she was referring to how we met needs of children--the sources of revenue must be as wide as the causes of need. This is why I think we need local-level money and effort. We need State-level money and effort.

We need Federal-level money and effort. The Federal funds will always be the smallest part of this program but the effect of bringing the Federal funds into the picture will be tremendous if they are sufficient and if they are offered in a helpful way.

This is a nationwide problem and it needs nationwide interest and support.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, Dr. Eliot.

Senator Javits, any questions?

Senator JAVITS. Yes.

First, I share the pleasure of my subcommittee chairman for your presence here with us today. We all know you by reputation. We are delighted that you are contributing to this discussion.

Second, I would like to be sure I understand very clearly the end result of your views. We lay aside the desirability of passing a bill which would have attached to it the chairman of both our committee and our subcommittee; I assume that will come to pass anyhow no matter what we put in it. But I will say that I am a little dubious about all the emphasis on research. I gather from you, laying the courtesies aside, that you think we could usefully spend some money to train personnel and also the technical assistants. By the mere fact that you have not mentioned grants to States which will match funds for the purpose of running youth programs, as we do in New York, for example, I gather that you do not think that that is entitled to the same order of priority. In other words, to restate what I gather is your view, placing in terms of priority everything but grants to run youth programs would have first priority; that is, training personnel perhaps additional research for personnel, not too much for that, technical assistance. Priority No. 1. Priority No. 2. Grants to aid States, municipalities, voluntary organizations to run the program. Would that be a fair summary of your position?

Dr. ELIOT. Mr. Chairman, may I speak to that point?

Earlier in my testimony I said that I had testified here in behalf of other bills that have included these grants to States to assist in the programs. I have no quarrel with this procedure. I think that when the Federal Government can see its way clear to come forward with grants to assist the States in developing their programs on a matching basis of some nature, partly matching, maybe, partly not matching, that this is a wholly appropriate and a satisfactory procedure. I have not worked under the Social Security Act for many years not to know how effective this program can be. The reason that I really welcomed this other approach for the present as a first step toward perhaps coming later to something of the sort that you are speaking of is that there has seemed to be for some reason an inability on the part of the Congress, the executive branch, working with the Congress, to come up with a program that everybody can agree on of that nature. And it seemed to me that if we could start with this new approach, slightly different, we would be able to lay the ground, in, say, 3 year's time, perhaps sooner, to show how States would undertake to operate a grant-in-aid program to support their regular activities.

I have already indicated that one of the big problems that I encountered when I was Chief of the Children's Bureau in trying to get people to get behind a bill of the sort you speak of, Šenator Javits', has been that they could not agree at State level as to who

should do what and who should handle Federal funds. How would the thing be worked out? Under this projects bill it seems to me that the State agencies, that any government of any State or every State, could come forward with a project and say, "Let us in the first 2 years of operation of this program work out a scheme by which we learn how we would operate a grant-in-aid program from the Federal Government to support our general programs of youth services," and if this were to happen, as I have said in my mimeographed statement, if this were to happen in a dozen States, in a dozen cities, we would have information that we simply do not have today as to what the best method of operation would be.

Now, this is why I have said I would be most happy to support this new approach to the problem. And I am not against the other.

This I would like to have quite clear.

Senator JAVITS. Thank you, Doctor. I just wanted to be sure I had your point.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, Dr. Eliot. We appreciate your coming down. You have been most helpful to us.

Thank you, Senator Javits.

I would like to have put in the record at this point the statement of Arthur W. Wilkie, chairman of the National Child Welfare Commission of the American Legion.

(The statement referred to follows:)

STATEMENT OF ARTHUR W. WILKIE, CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL CHILD WELFARE COMMISSION, THE AMERICAN LEGION

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, the national organization of the American Legion appreciates the opportunity to present its views on legislation aimed at reducing the incidence of juvenile delinquency.

Our

The American Legion has conducted a number of program activities benefiting children and youth for nearly 35 years some of which have been concerned directly and others indirectly with preventing juvenile delinquency. position has been and remains so today that the primary responsibility in this area lies first in the home and in the local community. Our child welfare program is aimed at strengthening family life and the development of sound community services for children. We have on numerous occasions initiated or supported State legislation relating to juvenile courts, probation services, detention-home facilities, and improved standards for juvenile training schools.

Without departing from our traditional position that the prevention and control of juvenile delinquency is primarily a local responsibility, we recognize that there are some functions in this area which can best be performed at the national level. These are continuing functions and should include stimulation of research, compilation of national statistics, and standard setting.

Experience gained since 1949 has established that traditional methods of approaching the problem of delinquency are not sufficiently effective and some special activities initiated through the use of Federal funds appear warranted. The official position of the American Legion with regard to additional Federal assistance in the area of juvenile delinquency is stated in Resolution No. 2 adopted by the American Legion National Executive Committee at its meeting held in October 1958.

JUVENILE DELINQUENCY SERVICES

Whereas juvenile delinquency rates are continuing their increase; and Whereas one of the most serious problems in the prevention and control of delinquency is the lack of trained personnel in this field; and

Whereas Resolution No. 21 adopted by the National Executive Committee of the American Legion, meeting April 30, May 1 and 2, 1958, requested Federal legislation to provide Federal matching grants to the States to assist in the training of personnel in methods more effective to the prevention and control of delinquency; and

Whereas such legislation was not approved by the 85th Congress and Resolution No. 1 is no longer effective: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the National Executive Committee, meeting in Indianapolis, Ind., October 8-10, 1958, That we reaffirm Resolution No. 21.

The American Legion has for a number of years noted that one of the major needs in coping with the problem of delinquency and other areas of service to children is an insufficient number of qualified personnel.

The Senate Subcommittee To Investigate Juvenile Delinquency reported last year that one of the main problems observed throughout its years of study is the lack of trained and skilled workers in the field of delinquency (S. Rept. No. 1429, 2d sess., 85th Cong.). A review of the federally assisted, State administered program of child welfare services which provides protective and social services to children will show that approximately only one-half of the counties in the United States have the services of a full-time public child welfare worker. (U.S. Children's Bureau, "Children and Youth.") Only a fraction of this group have had specialized training.

The American Legion has taken steps, although limited in scope, to assist with the alleviation of the problem of insufficient trained personnel in the delinquency field. For the past 4 years the American Legion Child Welfare Foundation has assisted a number of police officers with a part of their maintenance expenses while attending the Delinquency Control Institute at the University of Southern California. These police officers after completion of a 12-week training course, return to their home communities and are assigned to work with juvenile offenders. Such training pays real dividends to the few communities who have had representatives at this institute but such training programs need to be expanded and increased to include other specialized areas of the delinquency field.

Our Child Welfare Foundation also assisted with the financing of a training institute held at Rutgers University for juvenile training school personnel responsible for in-service training programs at such institutions.

Funds have also been extended to Tulane University to help finance summer courses for individuals working in the correctional field who previously have not received specialized training.

Although the American Legion has no official position at this time, either favoring or opposing Federal funds to assist with the development of a program of juvenile delinquency control projects as proposed in S. 1090, we do agree in principle with the purpose of such legislation. There is a need for this type research activity with central coordination, evaluation, and dissemination of information.

Likewise, the American Legion is unable to either favor or oppose the establishment of a Federal Advisory Council on Juvenile Delinquency, also set forth in S. 1090. The American Legion traditionally has believed that social services for children should be integrated in one program and services for delinquent children cannot safely be too far removed from the overall field of services to children and youth in general. The delinquency problem at this time is urgent, however, and special efforts to alleviate this situation do appear proper. We would hope that proposed Federal legislation dealing specifically with delinquency can reverse the trend and stimulate sufficient total community and State services for children so as to permit the Federal Government to soon discontinue grants for this purpose.

The American Legion urges the subcommittee to take favorable action to provide matching funds to the States for the purpose of better preparing individuals for effective service in the various areas of juvenile delinquency. We also endorse the principle of juvenile delinquency projects as an effective research tool in discovering improved techniques for use in the prevention and control of juvenile delinquency.

And the subcommittee will stand in recess until tomorrow_morning at 10 a.m. when the witnesses appearing will be Mrs. Samuel Brown, of the National Council of Jewish Women; Judge Thomas J. S. Waxter, of the American Public Welfare Association; Mr. Clifford J. Campbell, of the American Municipal Association; Mr. George Riley, of the AFL-CIO; Mr. George J. Hecht, of the American Parents Committee; and Miss Fern Colborn, of the National Federation of Settlements.

(Whereupon, at 2:44 p.m., Monday, April 27, 1959, the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Tuesday, April 28, 1959.)