so-called experts feel as though these figures on juvenile misbehavior are going to change considerably by 1962. People like J. Edgar Hoover state that by 1962, the present juvenile crime rate may even double in numbers. Of course, this is obvious. The youngsters who were products of World War II, of which there are a great number, are now coming into the 12-, 13-, 14- and 15-year-old group. Juvenile crime statistics seem to increase in relation to the juvenile population growth.

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Amershadian, do you not feel that States and localities and voluntary organizations will put up considerable money here as they have already?

Mr. AMERSHADIAN. Yes.

Senator JAVITS. The only thing the Federal Government really needs to do is to supplement it sufficiently to make it attractive, is that not correct?

Mr. AMERSHADIAN. My experience in talking with various people in charge of State funds is that they find their present programs so overloaded with more youngsters than ever that the State agency heads are in dire need of new funds. There is no doubt that $5 million of new funds will help considerably.

Finally, I think that the approach to disburse Federal funds, especially to new private programs, should be on the basis of how we ran a successful educational financing program after World War II, when the U.S. Government undertook the underwriting of the GI tuition costs in our colleges. At first, some of the colleges were reluctant to receive some of these funds from the Government because they thought the Government would control their colleges, but it turned out to be one of the most successful things.

So that if we are going to help these private institutions, I think it could be done much more effectively by underwriting the tuition cost and in that way the private agency especially will have a free rein to do their work.

Senator JAVITS. You do not feel, therefore, that local sources of support are adequate right now?

no.

Mr. AMERSHADIAN. From the persons I have talked to I would say

Senator JAVITS. All right, Mr. Amershadian.

Thank you very much for appearing today.

Mr. AMERSHADIAN. Thank you.

Senator JAVITS. I wish to make a brief statement before we adjourn the hearing this morning.

From all the testimony that I have heard and the statements which I have read of witnesses appearing before the subcommittee I must say that I am more convinced than ever that we would be proceeding inadequately under the bill which is authored by my colleagues, the chairman of the committee and the chairman of the subcommittee, which provides essentially $5 million for further research projects in this field.

I think that the emergency in juvenile delinquency and youth crime is a very real one. It is national in scope. We have a great many techniques now that should and ought to be employed in a far more accelerated way than we are employing them.

States, localities, and voluntary organizations are constantly frustrated by the lack of funds. I cannot see how, in view of the magnitude of this problem, we can let fairly reasonable sums of money stand in our way in order to make some measurable progress.

Actual, factual programs such as the Youth Towns which have been referred to here today and perhaps what is even more urgent, adequate services for the youth boards and youth agencies like those we have in the city of New York which actually work with street gangs, for settlements, recreation, keeping schools open after hours and especially for personal leadership, which seems to be one of the great answers to the juvenile delinquency problem, also for rehabilitation and psychiatric social worker services of the courts, and, finally, for far more intelligent, limited supervision, camps or institutions for delinquent boys and girls.

The amount called for by my bill, which is $39 million, seems to me to be far more near the mark than what has been proposed, considering the size of the problem, its national cost, and the dangers which we face.

As Attorney General of the State of New York I have had great experience with this problem, including the work of the very distinguished Commission in respect to it, and we come back always to the heart of our necessary resources of doing the job which we know needs to be done, which we know how to do, which we can do, but for which we do not have enough money.

So I hope very much that my colleagues, as we go along with this hearing, will interest themselves in the more practical aspects of the problem, without in any way neglecting the research which I think could be carried on as part of the context of a far broader program which the urgency of the situation requires.

There being no other witnesses today and in the absence of my friend and colleague, Senator Clark, this hearing of the subcommittee will stand adjourned until June 4, at 10 a.m. at a room to be announced, when the subcommittee expects to hold another and probably final hearing on this body of legislation.

(Whereupon, at 11:25 a.m., the subcommittee recessed until Thursday, June 4, 1959.)

JUVENILE DELINQUENCY PREVENTION AND CONTROL

THURSDAY, JUNE 4, 1959

U.S. SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON JUVENILE DELINQUENCY

OF THE COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met at 10:10 a.m., pursuant to call, in room 4200, New Senate Office Building, Senator Joseph S. Clark (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senators Clark (presiding) and Morse.

Committee staff member present: Samuel V. Merrick, professional staff member.

Senator CLARK. The subcommittee will be in session.

We are honored this morning to have as our first witness the distinguished senior Senator from Oregon, Mr. Morse, whose interest in this area of our public life is well known and of long standing.

The additional hearings today have been called at the suggestion of Senator Morse to hear two witnesses whose competence in this field is known nationally.

Senator, we are very happy to have you here and I will ask you to proceed in your own way.

STATEMENT OF HON. WAYNE MORSE, U.S. SENATOR OF OREGON

Senator MORSE. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate very much the opportunity to testify as a witness and also the opportunity to serve as your associate on this subcommitte.

However, because of the two expert witnesses we have here this morning, Mr. Chairman, if it meets with your favor and pleasure I would like to ask permission that there be inserted at this point the testimony that I have prepared for this hearing along with certain communications that I have recived on the bills pending before the subcommittee.

Senator CLARK. The testimony referred to will be incorporated in the record at this point.

(The statement by Senator Morse follows:)

STATEMENT OF SENATOR WAYNE MORSE ON S. 694, S. 765, S. 766, S. 1090, AND S. 1341, BILLS RELATING TO THE PREVENTION AND CONTROL OF JUVENILE DELINQUENCY Mr. Chairman, although I do not assert a professional competence in the field of the prevention and control of juvenile delinquency, I am deeply concerned, as a legislator, to determine what the facts of the matter are. I want to find out what the needs of such a program of prevention and control are and how much they will cost. Given this data, then I have the duty of determining in conjunction with my colleagues, what legislation is best suited to correct the situation.

41638-59-14

I should like to preface my statement, which will be a brief one, because I wish to give as much time as is possible to the distinguished and qualified witnesses we have with us this morning from whom I expect to learn much, with a few words of commendation for the chairman of the subcommittee and the ranking member of the minority upon the subcommittee.

The chairman brings to our deliberations a wealth of practical experience as the former mayor of a great metropolis, the problems we meet together upon today he has met formerly in a distinguished and responsible capacity. So, too, the Senator from New York, who as a former attorney general of a great State, has from his position in the law-enforcement arm of the State government, garnered much valuable experience appropriate to the subject under discussion, I feel sure that although we may have varying views as to precisely what should be done, and in what order it should be done, and how much ought to be spent to accomplish our common objective, that nevertheless we will be able to bring from committee sound legislation which we can defend upon the floor of the Senate and enact.

To begin with, Mr. Chairman, I should like to quote from a report to the Senate of the United States dated March 15, 1954. My reference is to be found upon page 14 of Senate Report 1064 of the 83d Congress:

That was said over 5 years ago, Mr. Chairman, and it bears repeating. Even though, as you pointed out earlier in the hearing, 97 percent of our boys and girls are healthy law respecting youngsters, the remaining 3 percent are a tragic waste of a valuable natural resource. They, and we as a nation, cannot afford the waste of lives and hopes that the 3 percent represent. We certainly cannot afford the cost to our society of the adult penitentiaries and jails to which this 3 percent will graduate, or the hospitals for the emotionally sick to which they will go unless we find a solution. This is a case of being pennywise and pound foolish. It is far better to spend to prevent than it is to spend to incarcerate. The situation is even more shocking to me when I read the projections which have been made by previous witnesses such as Bertram Beck, associate director, National Association of Social Workers, to the effect that the rate of delinquency is expected, in the next decade or so, to climb to double the present figure. A 3-percent figure is at best intolerable, a 6-percent figure is one which we must take steps now to avert. They had better be pretty big steps too, because if they are too mincing and small, in my judgment, we will not do the job that needs to be done.

As I read the testimony, I am impressed by the stress which has been placed upon the necessity for demonstration projects. I wish to make it quite clear that I am not opposed to this approach. It is a good one. But, and here I enter a caveat, I wonder if this is the only solution? On pages 28, 33, 38, 53, 54, 75, 79, 83, 100, 102, 136, 142, 149, and 153 of the transcript I noted over and over again the witnesses who had something to say about the need for trained personnel. People will be needed to man the projects. These people will have to be trained and should be trained. Trained not only for work on the firing line, so to speak, but trained to evaluate the programs which are undertaken. Our colleges and graduate schools will need to turn out social workers, statisticians, sociologists, probation workers, psychologists, and public administration experts. I ask: "Can the job be done unless we provide grants to students, yes, and grants to schools to set up and run the types of programs which will give us the trained and dedicated men and women we need?" Granted that there is much to be learned in on-the-job training programs, I still raise the question of whether we would not, in the long run, save much time and money by providing for these demonstration projects young men and women who have mastered in schools the essential social science disciplines. Why is it unreasonable to do both concurrently? If $5 million a year for 5 years won't permit us to do what we know ought to be done, then maybe we ought to reconsider that amount and raise it to the amount necessary to do what should be done.

I stress the need for training, Mr. Chairman, not alone on the letters I have received and the testimony I have read in this subcommittee hearing record, but also on testimony I heard recently in the hungry children hearings. The distinguished chairman of this subcommittee was a tower of strength to me in our recent floor struggle to get enough money for that purpose recently and he may recall some of the evidence that went into the legislative history in that battle. I am particularly reminded of what Mr. Shea, of the District Public Welfare Department, told us about the problems he was having in getting trained people and keeping them. Mr. Shea's attention was directed to a criticism contained in a report on welfare problems which stated: