Mr. ROHRBOUGH. The State is supervising it; yes.

Mr. OWENS. The Federal Government is supervising the collection of that tax from the people of the State.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. It is supervising the collection, but not the spending.

Mr. OWENS. Then certainly if we are to give it to the Southern States, is there any question in your mind but that the Federal Government should be absolutely certain that it is spent equally, the money given to the white children and colored children as well?

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. I think there should be a provision in the bill providing that there should be no discrimination where the schools are divided.

Mr. OWENS. Right now there is a provision in the fourteenth amendment to the effect that States are going to be deprived of their representation in Congress if they take the steps that deprive people of votes other than for reasons of treason or having committed a felony, but that is not observed, is it?

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. No; it is not.

Mr. OWENS. Have we any more reason to feel the educational feature is going to be observed by those States more than the other is? Mr. ROHRBOUGH. I think if it is written in the law, it will be observed..

Mr. OWENS. The constitutional provision is not observed, is it?
Mr. ROHRBOUGH. No; it is not.

Mr. OWENS. That is all.

Mr. McCowEN. Mr. Kearns?

Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Rohrbough, it is a good bill that you have written. I like parts of it very well.

I am somewhat confused in analyzing it whether you are not more concerned about the salaries of teachers and the possibilities of having available teachers to teach the children of America than you are in just the educational standards that are set up, as you have set forth here.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. My opinion is if you pay good teachers reasonably well, the rest will take care of itself.

Mr. KEARNS. You cannot do that unless they have programs in the States.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. Oh, yes; of course.

Mr. KEARNS. Maybe I have not interpreted your bill properly, but as I read through it, I understood your great concern to be teachers' salaries.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. That is true.

Mr. KEARNS. Well, that is something to be concerned about.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. I think it is.

Mr. KEARNS. That is all.

Mr. McCowEN. Mr. Lesinski?

Mr. LESINSKI. Mr. Rohrbough, you talk about shortage of teachers at the present time. Is it not a fact that a lot of our teachers had to go to war?

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. That is true, a great many of them did, but a larger number of them resigned.

Mr. LESINSKI. That caused one shortage, and your other shortage is due to the overflow of GI boys today in the colleges.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. Yes.

Mr. LESINSKI. That is a temporary matter. However, in West Virginia or any other State, it is a fact that the Government under WPA and PWA have built a good many schools through the territory where they would not have had them unless there was a Government program. Mr. ROHRBOUGH. They assisted somewhat. That agency assisted somewhat.

Mr. LESINSKI. I mean there was quite a bit of assistance given by the Government.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. Yes.

Mr. LESINSKI. If the Government would assist the under-privileged sections, it would do a lot of good; but there is a question of where there is that underprivileged section.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. Yes; and that can be ascertained without too much difficulty.

Mr. LESINSKI. That is all.

Mr. McCOWEN. Mr. Kennedy?

Mr. KENNEDY. In placing the emphasis on the Southern States, I think it is well to remember that even in the State of Massachusetts, which is listed as one of the prosperous States, the teachers start in the city of Boston at $1,100.

Do you not think this program, while it may start with the Southern States, will eventually call for Federal aid to be given to all States? Mr. ROHRBOUGH. I am not quite sure whether that will be necessary. I suspect Massachusetts probably, in view of the income of the people there, might be able to increase its own school funds.

Mr. KENNEDY. We are attempting to do that, but in Boston there is tremendous agitation on behalf of raising the teachers' salaries and raising the standards of the school system. I do not think Massachusetts is going to have to have an adequate school system under its present economic arrangements. I think we are going to have to face the fact that Federal aid is going to have to be given to every State.

The wealthy States are not going to be able to raise the standards of the Southern States, and at the same time keep their own school standards up.

Would you accept general Federal aid as something which inevitably will come?

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. I would not state it so strongly as that. I should not be opposed to the plan, but I think that the big problem is to take care of the States where the income is low and where there is no remedy for it because of the poverty of the section.

Mr. KENNEDY. Thank you very much.

Mr. McCowEN. Mr. Rohrbough, you are aware of the fact, I am sure, that in the wealthier States, there are various sections, sometimes large sections, sections spotted over the States here and there that are poor financially and which cannot support very good schools. Mr. ROHRBOUGH. Yes, sir; that is true.

Mr. McCOWEN. Teachers are paid low salaries there in comparison with the more favored spots.

Mr. ROHRBOUGH. That is undoubtedly true.

Mr. McCowEN. That is particularly true in rural areas that are not too far from the larger and weathier cities. Mr. ROHRBOUGH. Often the case.

Mr. McCowEN. If the so-called wealthy States are going to contribute many millions per State to the support of this kind of a fund, it is going to be that much less able to support their own schools.

Therefore, it is only reasonably right that they should get back some of this money in return to help equalize their own situation. Mr. ROHRBOUGH. I could support a program of that kind. Mr. McCOWEN. Thank you very kindly for your statement. Mr. BREHM. Mr. Chairman, I have just one question. Is it not true that some States have as low as $100 a year for a classroom unit? Mr. ROHRBOUGH. I have understood so.

Mr. BREHM. All right.

Mr. McCowEN. Thank you very much for your statement, Mr. Rohrbough.

The next witness is Mr. Winstead, who will speak for himself, Mr. Whitten, and Mr. Abernethy.

Mr. WELCH. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt for a moment; I have a bill pending before your committee. Evidently, there is a misunderstanding somewhere; and inasmuch as you have several witnesses to be heard before I can be reached, I would like to ask to have my statement made a part of the record at this point.

Mr. McCOWEN. Without objection, it will be done.

STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. WELCH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Mr. WELCH. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee; it has always been my belief that the financing of education is a responsibility of the local community and the States. In my opinion, any departure from this practice must be examined carefully lest the Nation's schools, like schools in so many unfortunate lands, be brought under the control of some centralized bureau of government.

I know that voluminous evidence will be presented to the committee for the purpose of showing that an inequality of educational opportunity exists among the States. But we must not be too hasty in jumping to the conclusion that inaction by the Federal Government is the principal cause of this inequality. In the very States which are requesting aid from the Federal Government there are inequalities of educational opportunity within the States themselves. I should think that States which have amassed huge surpluses in their State treasuries would spread this money through the State so that more children, especially those in rural areas, would have an opportunity for a decent education.

Certainly the States should examine their own methods of educational finance before they plead to the Federal Government for aid. However worthy may be the States' requests for Federal aid, they must be considered in light of the Federal Government's stupendous national debt, and in light of the catastrophe which would befall our country if the Federal Government were to fail in its interest payments to its debtors.

Nevertheless, I realize that there is an emergency in American education at the present time. Thousands of public school teachers are leaving the profession to take other jobs which pay a just wage. As a result, many school boards have been forced to hire incompetent

teachers who lack both talent and training for the important task of training our citizens of the future.

Experts tell me that immediate salary increases must be granted to teachers or else our Nation will face its worst educational crisis in the history of American education.

I am proud to say that my State of California has enacted a minimum wage law for teachers requiring a beginning wage of not less than $2,400 a year.

As far as I can determine, there is no way for the Federal Government to demand that the States spend more money for their schools. Hence, we are faced with the fact that unless the Federal Government grants more money to the poorer States, particularly those in the South, thousands of American children, through no fault of theirs, will be deprived of an opportunity for an adequate education. I have too much affection for our young people, and too much understanding of the national disaster which would result from an unintelligent citizenry to permit these children to go through life without the advantages of a good education.

Once I made up my mind, and I reached the decision reluctantly that Federal aid to education was necessary despite the risks involved, I looked for a pattern of Federal aid legislation which would be acceptable to all interested groups.

I studied carefully the Senate report accompanying S. 181 of the Seventy-ninth Congress, second session.

I understand that the information in this report was compiled by experts in educational administration and finance, and that the specific recommendations in the report are the fruit of much hard work by a subcommittee of the Senate, which heard a great many witnesses present extensive testimony on the Federal-aid question.

Therefore, my bill, H. R. 156, follows the pattern suggested in this report. Federal control over the school curriculum, the selection of teachers, and methods of instruction is expressly prohibited. The bill restricts aid to the poorer States according to a formula which correlates total child population, State-wide average income and effort to support schools.

(H. R. 156 is as follows:)

[H. R. 156, 80th Cong., 1st sess.]

A BILL To authorize the appropriation of funds in order to assist in reducing the inequalities of educational opportunities in elementary and secondary schools

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That this Act may be cited as the "Educational Finance Act of 1947".

SEC. 2. No department, agency, officer, or employee of the United States shall exercise any direction, supervision, or control over, or prescribe any requirements with respect to any school, or any State educational institution or agency, with respect to which any funds have been or may be made available or expended pursuant to this Act, nor shall any term or condition of any agreement or any other action taken under this Act, whether by agreement or otherwise, relating to any contribution made under this Act to or on behalf of any school, or any State educational institution or agency, or any limitation or provision in any appropriation made pursuant to this Act, seek to control in any manner, or prescribe requirements with respect to, or authorize any department, agency, officer, or employee of the United States to direct, supervise, or control in any manner, or prescribe any requirements with respect to, the administration, the personnel, the curriculum, the instruction, the methods of instruction or the materials of instruction.

APPROPRIATION AUTHORIZED

SEC. 3. For the purpose of more nearly equalizing elementary school and secondary school opportunities among and within the States, there is hereby authorized to be appropriated for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1948, the sum of $150,000,000 ; for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1949, the sum of $200,000,000; for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1950, and for each fiscal year thereafter, the sum of $250,000,000 to be apportioned to the States as hereinafter provided.

APPORTIONMENT

SEC. 4. Ninety-eight per centum of the funds appropriated under section 3 of this Act shall be apportioned to the respective States, excluding those enumerated in subsection (G) of this section, in the following manner :

(a) Multiply (A) the number of children from five to seventeen years of age, inclusive, in each State, as determined by the Department of Commerce, for the third year next preceding the year for which the computation is made, by (B) $40. (b) Multiply (A) the average of the annual income payments for each State, as determined by the Department of Commerce, for five years including the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh years next preceding the year for which the computation is made by (B) 1.1 per centum.

(c) If, for any State, the amount calculated under (a) exceeds the amount calculated under (b), the difference shall be the amount of Federal aid due each such State.

(d) Determine the percentage ratio of (a) the amount spent in each State from local and State revenues and from other sources for current expenditures (excluding interest, debt service, and capital outlay) for elementary school and secondary school education for the third year next preceding the year for which the computation is made, to (b) the average of the annual income payments for each State, as determined by the Department of Commerce, for five years including the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh years next preceding the year for which the computation is made.

When the percentage ratio thus determined in (d) for any State is less than 2.5, the amount of Federal aid due each such State, as computed under (c) shall be proportionately reduced.

(e) Determine the percentage ratio of (a) the estimated current expenditures (excluding interest, debt service, and capital outlay) in each State from local and State revenues and from other sources for elementary school and secondary school education for the year for which the computation is made, to (b) the average of the annual income payments for each State, as determined by the Department of Commerce, for the most recent three years, for which annual income data are available in the year next preceding the year for which the computation is made. When for any year the percentage ratio thus determined for any State, after the fourth year of the operation of this Act, is less than 2.2, such State shall be ineligible to receive any part of the funds authorized in section 3 of this Act for the year for which the computation is made, and shall remain ineligible for that year until such time as revised estimates of expenditures, as determined in the preceding paragraph of this subsection, produce a percentage ratio equal to or greater than 2.2.

(f) In the event 98 per centum of the funds authorized for any fiscal year in section 3 of this Act are insufficient to pay to all eligible States the full amount of Federal aid due each such State, as computed in subsections (a), (b), (c), and (d) of this section, the amount of Federal aid paid to each eligible State shall bear the same ratio to the amount of Federal aid due each such State as the total amount of Federal aid paid to all eligible States bears to the total amount of Federal aid due all eligible States.

(g) From not to exceed 2 per centum of the funds appropriated under section 3 such sums as may be necessary shall be apportioned by the Commissioner to Alaska, Hawaii, the Canal Zone, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, the Virgin Islands, and Guam according to their respective needs for additional funds for elementary and secondary schools upon the basis of joint agreements made with their respective State educational authorities.

CERTIFICATION AND PAYMENT

SEC. 5. The United States Commissioner of Education shall certify regularly the amounts allotted under this Act to each State that has accepted the provisions of this Act to the Secretary of the Treasury, who shall, through the